As I said it is hard to capture with a camera what the eye sees. Most of the distribution happens close to the wheel. But I would tend to agree that it's not what you would expect out of high carbon. I would lean toward the alloy explanation on this stuff since I have a worked piece of it that is hard without intending to quench it. It would be nice to get an analysis of it.
Greyangel
A cement-tie, rail holding clip.
Don't know what they are called, I never worked with those things.
The spark-bursts are being suppressed by alloying is my guess. We need an analysis or someone who knows, to tell us what the heck the stuff is. :/
Yep, we need to know what this stuff is could be anything from 4340 to 4370 (L6). Whatever it is it's all about being a dammed good spring. My wild-ass guess is a medium carbon spring steel like what the automotive industry uses for leaf springs. I'd be willing to bet a dollar on that one. ;)
The creepers were straight high carbon steel but with the cement ties and these extra good clips they don't need creepers or spikes they need something that will outlast the cement tie, and/or work hard at protecting the cement tie.
They didn't mess around, compared to the cost of the rail and ties and labor the clips are cheap even if they're 5160 or 4340 or 8750 or whatever...
Knowing what all of them are isn't going to happen, if it's like the automotive industry they use different alloys to do the same thing. There are several that work, and work the same, for leaf springs and different manufactures get their supplys from different sources etc.
Seems like railroad car springs were figured to mostly be simple
1070 or there abouts. :)I'm into high carbon steel and tool steel but read a book about leaf and coil springs after being asked about it on r.k.
Same with reading/studying more than I really wanted to know about sorry old martensitic stainless steel.
Alvin in AZ (not a metallurgist, just a reader of;) ps- here's a list for you, the ones they acutally named as most common and I bothered to mark in my ASM's Handbook;)
4060 4068 4161 4340 5060 5160 50B60 (boron steel hardens deeper, almost air hardening, so it's 51B60 for thicker springs without costing more, by not having to add more expensive elements like Mo and Cr for that effect) 6150 (old and outdated for suspension, now just used for valve springs unless the -best- is wanted;) 8660 9260 (passenger car springs) 9261 (passenger car springs) 9262 (passenger car springs)
Now you guys did it.
This evening I just had to take a walk along the tracks. I found two types of "clips". The most common and the type that match the clips on the rails looked like they were stamped out of really thick stock. In cross section they are "c" shaped.
The other type look like they were cast. They are solid. I only found two and I saw did not see any in use. Im guessing these are an old style. There are no concrete ties in this area.
Both have the same "j" shape and I see then clipped to the rails one on each side of every other tie.
I have no idea what to do with the one I picked up or even with all this information but I always like learning new stuff.
Al
Clips. :)
That's what I just got off the phone talking about... the painted C shaped (simple, flat section) thing with two fingers that GreyAngel has pictures of... is for holding the rail down and from running both and used with cement ties only are called "clips".
Cool. :)
Al, what you are calling clips are "rail anchors" or "creepers", they are J shaped and used with wood ties to keep the rail from "running". I've been calling your C-section one, a U section.
Seems like there were four types of creepers we used but can only remember three and defined by cross-section... 3/4" by 1" square... (junk) U section, made from 5/16" steel plate... (tricky to put on) forged steel T cross-section one. (the best ones)
Just now remembering another one it was rotated sideways into place... seems like it was ~5/16" plate with a simple flat steel cross section. Not common and not much good either and a pain to put on. :)
The forged steel T section creepers were the good ones and they were replaced by the U section 5/16" sheet metal ones in my area.
And then one that doesn't count since I can barily remember it, it was a two piece creeper... what a piece of crap that was. :/
Yep, rail-anchors or "creepers". To keep the rail from running. :)
Well if you heat steel up and pound on it you've got a lifetime supply of really good high carbon steel, out there, for cheap. ;)
There is more buried and lost in the dirt every-day along the rail road than a guy could pound and grind into useful things in a whole life time. :)
Alvin in AZ (not a blacksmith)
I straightened and drew out the other half of the piece I made a knife out of tonight. I boxed it into the brick pile I call a forge after I was done so it should cool pretty slowly. I want to check if it is any softer when I go get it out tomarrow. Should give me an idea if I inadvertantly air hardend the first piece (unless it needs to cool even slower than that). I'm going to grind it off later and do a heat and dump into some warm oil to see if it breaks or holds together in the quench. After that if it holds together I will try a couple of tempers on it then try to bend it in the vice to see what happens. If I can keep it intact and show a good hardness I'll try the same on the knife. The interesting thing about the knife is that is seems to hold a high gloss finish pretty well... chromium? I have handled it plenty and it doesn't appear to tarnish the way the low carbon steel does with handling.
Any idea how hard (and expensive) it is to get a metalurgical analysis?
This reminds me that I saw another style of metal whatever out in the piles that I never gave a second glance to. They look like cable loop guides. Kind of like a rounded channel steel (maybe cast) bent sort of into a C shape. They were pretty rusty and as I said, I paid little attention to them but straightened out they would make a pretty respectible bar of steel. Think they could be carbon steel or something else equally cool? Maybe I should go grab one and play with it...
Greyangel
Thanks for the info. I guess I will have to take another walk and pick up some more. I saw only one more cast creeper, but there were a lot of the u-shaped ones.
There werer also some really big nuts and a few broken bolts. These were what was used to bolt the rails together before they switched to the ribbon rail in this area.
Is the steel in the old bolts and nuts anything interesting?
Al
I got to thinking and decided to go back to the scrap pile and see what I might have overlooked. If some of these creepers are good carbon stuff I figured I'd like some bigger stock. the following are pictures of some of the things I found. There is some good heavy pieces that ought to make a fair sized blade if the steel is any good. I also took a look at the track and saw what they do with the creepers and plates. Plate spiked into the tie, then the creeper attached to it and the rail. Makes sense now. But I'm a bit slow on the uptake :). I added a couple of pics of the blade I made out of the yellow painted clip. If I can just learn to make a decent handle it should make a pretty nice knife.
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