Milltronics,Fadals, Hurcos

I have used Fadals since 1984 The turcite used to peel off the box way machines. Had better luck w/linear way machines, just not as robust as Mazacks.
My ex foreman ,who I sold my machines and Orlando business to, has a shop full of Fadals. He has had spindle and axis drive motor problems on all the newer ones.
The Hurcos: VM-1 (26 x 14 x 18) You cant just save the program,it saves the tool page and part set up, a real pain in the ass when you bring up a program you did months ago because it loads all the tools that were in the machine back then and resets the x,y & z zeros to that set-up also. If you are doing multiple hole patterns( different sizes) it has no way to prioritize tools, ie: it puts the spot drill in and out of the spindle for every set of holes(you can tell a Mazak to do every hole while that tool is in the spindle) You press hold to stop the machine, to get it going again yopu press hold again,not start like all the other machines. If you think this is petty wait till you hear a tool tearing up and you start smashing the hold button...hit it twice and it keeps going! Other little things, spindle shuts off or you lose jog when you go between screens. You have to hold the start button in for 2 seconds for the machine to start, its easy to push start and walk away from the machine only to come back and find you didnt machine the part!
I have the G-code feature but we do alot of 1-5 part runs and the conversational is great for this...most of the time I dont even save the programs...takes longer to type in all the right tools again than it does to make a new program!
----- Original Message -----
Newsgroups: alt.machines.cnc Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 10:28 AM Subject: Re: Milltronics VM25, or What?

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Ok, I recieved replies from 3 people who think Milltronics Suck! No<BR>&gt;&gt; replies pro.What is the machine of choice these days (medium priced<BR>&gt;&gt; linear way 40X20 or50X25 ) My last purchace was (2) VM-1 Hurcos' 1-1/2<BR>&gt;&gt; years ago. Good Iron &amp; drives but control has some features(or lack there<BR>&gt;&gt; of) that bug me. My other VMC is a Fadal 15XT. I have used, in the past,<BR>&gt;&gt; Mazak,Anilam,Comet,Dyna &amp; Lagun.. What about Haas? ( I was staying away<BR>&gt;&gt; from them because I heard the owner was arrested for not paying his<BR>&gt;&gt; taxes)<BR>&gt;&gt; Thanks, Mike...MP Mfg &amp; Design (Florida)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; See the 9/25 post by Von "Another on topic post..... new VMC".<BR>&gt; Fadal seems to be the winner.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Altho a lot of people here have Haas.<BR>&gt; The consensus about Haas seems to be they're OK iffin you don't plan on<BR>&gt; using them for too long or too hard.<BR>&gt; And if you've purchased all the individually-sold g-codes, ferchrissakes.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I think they have a special going on now, g0,g1,g2, AND g3 for $495.<BR>&gt; *Including i,j, AND k!* .&nbsp; wow....<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I have a Fadal, which I like, altho without many reference points.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Milltronics has always been dogged here.<BR>&gt; Altho others have spoken favorably about Sharpes, Mighty, but not a lot of<BR>&gt; detail.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; What don't you like about the Hurco control?&nbsp; What size machine, and how<BR>&gt; much?<BR>&gt; My buddy has 4 Hurco KMB-1s, and one with a 10-tool carousel, sorta rare<BR>&gt; in that vintage hurco.<BR>&gt; Purely conversational, altho supposedly there is a way to get a g-code<BR>&gt; program in there.<BR>&gt; I understand the new hurco's are both g-code and conversational.&nbsp; Have you<BR>&gt; exploited that feature?<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Some friends bought a Stratasys Dimension printer (3D, ABS, seperate support structure material). Went in in Tuesday, was printing on Tuesday. Came with proprietary slicing/filling software. It figures it all out (i.e. completely programs the tools [build/support], even calculating volume of each material and run hours) and keeps going, 90 hours, so far, till it's done. Support structure breaks/melts away, clean shells left. So, after 40 years of perfecting the CNC metal removal processes, how come the machinging programming business isn't this simple. That's what the engineers want to know. Please help my puzzled engineers; here's what I offered:</DIV> <OL> <LI>Printing, additive; Macnhing, subtractive</LI> <LI>Printing, single tool (funnel pumping liquid plastic in thin strings); Machining, infinite number and shape of tools</LI> <LI>Printing, vertical layers with support structure for horizontal features; Machining, special tools for undercuts and NO enclosed volumes (tool must be able to enter/exit machined feaure without damaging already machined geometry.</LI> <LI>Printing, everything happens on neatly defined layers where every xy location is either build or support material; Machining can easily follow NURBS&nbsp;surfaces in full 3D milling.</LI> <LI>Printing, environmental conditions relatively easy to control as regulated by even flow of melted material; machining, huge variations, depending on volume of metal removal.</LI> <LI>Printing, no waste to fight in the production process; Machining, all waste to fight, for waste removal and coolant access past waste, old blocking new.</LI> <LI>Printing, as insignificant&nbsp;waste build material, little extra to buy; Machining, as mostly waste, large disposal problem and extra expense of lost purchased weight (i.e., you bought 2 lbs but only 2 ozs went into purchased product, so price must absorb extra material plus time to remove).</LI> <LI>Printing, turnkey maintenance; Machining, complicated (preventative) maintenance program.</LI> <LI>Printing, get software, export model, process; Machining, learn machining, programming, tooling, tool holders, tool life, materials, work holding, machine maintenance, trouble shooting, ladder logic, machine parameters, registers, etc.</LI></OL> <DIV>Advantage, Dimension printing; Shame on machining to have wasted its 40 years of glory and come up so dry, dull, lifeless, esoteric, exclusive, isolated. Could buying a CNC mill ever be similarly turnkey?</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>David Janes</DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Come back and brag when you can print exotic metals and hold tolerances in the tenths or print an injection mold cavity to a near mirror finish....
Jon
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