My backup generator solution....

Awl --
Well, I finally took the plunge, and sprung for a generator, a bit contrary to my initial intentions.
After that halloween snow debacle, where millions were without power for
weeks, I was dead set on a nat. gas Generac from http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/quick_search.php , but after that halloween storm and Irene, you couldn't get a decent generator anywhere, for months....
God works in mysterious ways, as it came to appear that generac uses a cheap engine, with lots of complaints, and with shitty service on top of it all. I figger that they figgered that since home-moaners will be using this thing for, like, mebbe 5 hours in a year, all's it has to last is 10 hours! LOL
I had finally settled on a genset from these people in Maine: http://generatorsales.com/ , in particular http://www.generatorsales.com/order/Honda-13kw-Propane-Generator.asp?page=H04595 , a near-14 kW jobby, 12kW continuous, with, innerestingly, a $295 upgrade for 3 phase. What was attractive about this is that it delivers about twice the power of a generac for about the same price, AND has a Honda engine. AND is much much smaller.
Still, when all was said and done, it would be proly over $2500 for something that I might possibly NEVER use!!! My testosterone is too low to be a really good gambler....
Toward my "new strategy", these companies sell tri-fuel kits, supposedly diy-doable, no real mods to the carburetor, turning a gasoline generator to a tri-fuel generator..
http://www.propane-generators.com/order_page.htm
http://www.pngtechnologies.com/Honda_SEC.html
Well, it turns out that the above company in Maine will also convert your gasoline generator to tri-fuel, for less than the above companies, but want the carburetor for mods. You send them the carburetor, and they send you back a *tri-fuel bolt-on*! I spoke to the maine company about the diy kits from the above companies, and he said he couldn't really comment on them, but couldn't really see how they would work, or work well. I've come to like this company in maine, having spoken to them a few times, and am leaning toward letting them set up the tri-fuel carb.
Any opinions on going with the above diy-kit people vs. sending the carb to the Maine company for a bolt-on solution, presumably professionally done?
So, you ax, what carburetor will I be sending them?
Sam's club carries a Black Max gasoline generator (actually, exclusive to sam's clubs, hmmm.... ), 7,000/8,750 continuous/starting watts, with...... a Honda gx390 engine! http://www.blackmaxtools.com/catalog/generators/BM10700DR The whole unit seems nicely set up, with an hour meter, and seems to be a generic setup sold by a few companies, including the above Maine company, as a gasoline OR a tri-fuel jobby -- which I take to be a fair endorsement of the unit.
So I picked this up today, at $999, considerably cheaper than elsewhere, incl. Maine. Tomorrow, my first test will be to see if it is PC/Fadal stable. If it is, I will send out the carb, pending opinions here.
The nice thing about tri-fuel is that for prolonged outages, the nat gas fuel is Da Bomb, yet you can take it to jobsites or whatever, on gasoline/propane.. But, you lose about 10% of the power rating on nat gas.
I opted for 7 kW as opposed the 12 kW jobby, simply as a $$ bet. The 7 kW will power the house OR the shop, or pieces of both. If it works well, and if it turns out I need more power or there are lots of outages, I can always get another, and still be ahead of the game. I can isolate the shop from the house electrically, and therefore can power them separately. Or together, if I'm mindful of loads.
Comments/suggestions on this strategy? Sam's has a 90 day return policy, so I have some time to bail out.... and get a Generac.... LOL
--
EA










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http://www.generatorsales.com/order/Honda-13kw-Propane-Generator.asp?page=H04595 ,

Looks like a good bet to me. I have a Yanmar 3 KVA diesel generator that sips fuel, but the engine noise is like a steady hammer. It's been very reliable, a good jobsite generator but not worth running at night and keeping the neighborhood awake.
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http://www.generatorsales.com/order/Honda-13kw-Propane-Generator.asp?page=H04595 ,

WhisperWatt and a cupla other diesels are mini-split quiet, but pricey, about $6K for 6kW. Really incredible, tho. Few home standby's are really quiet, until you get to the multi-cylinder water-cooled *low rpm* jobbies. The Honda EU series are really quiet small generators, but pricey as well.
generatorsales.com in maine said the best way to quiet run-of-the-mill generators is to simply enclose them in a box, with suitable cutouts for intake air, exhaust. I'm going to bury the unit in the back of my shop, run my exhaust up the flu, along with the HW heater. That should at least keep the neighbors from shooting at it. :) Automotive mufflers might help, but he said an enclosure would help much more.
The other nice feature about this unit is that it is electric start, with a backup pull start -- really a no-brainer feature to me, but few units, it seems, do this.
--
EA


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On Saturday, 4 August 2012 17:16:21 UTC+1, Existential Angst wrote:

http://www.generatorsales.com/order/Honda-13kw-Propane-Generator.asp?page=H04595 ,

Not worth it, buy some candles and a board game, in case.
DanP
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http://www.generatorsales.com/order/Honda-13kw-Propane-Generator.asp?page=H04595 ,
I have contemplated that option, and don't totally disagree. This shit is really the worst kind of "bet". But, we really have been hammered in the NE. This is my experimentation with the survivalist mentality. After all, Gummer IS my hero..... After that halloween bullshit, Generac was backordered to almost Feb.! Proly made their units even shittier than usual, during this period, like houses built during the 'boom.
--
EA


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Let me know how it works out--pretty sure your fadal is going to be extremely unhappy.
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Sun I hope to at least test my PC on this genset, under various load conditions. The fadal test will proly be a few days away, but I am anxious about that as well. So far, the Fadal has been ultra reliable on my diy rpc, mebbe a bit underpowered, but really no problems, other than a rapid problem some years ago, fixed by some parameters setting which slowed it down some. If my PC holds up, this will bode well for the fadal, altho other loading could be a factor as well. All this is actually going to be a bit of a chore, for something I may never need, but I'll chaulk it up to some learning/Gunner-style doomsday preparation..... LOL
Plus I'll earn some brownie points with my neighbor, who I'll throw an extension cord to... LOL
--
EA



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Are you really going to have a need for your Fadal during a brief power outage? I wouldn't risk it.
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Despite my proximity to NYfuknCity, they haven't been so brief... one was 32 hours, because of a twig. And they used to be quite frequent, altho it's gotten a lot better.
As for the power purity, we're going to find out about that right quick.... :) And the response to sudden loads is a good point, of the fadal itself or to *other* sudden loads while the fadal is running.
One thing I can tell you right now.... honda engine or no, this goddamm thing is like my g-d lawnmower, mebbe worse.... holy shit.... def'ly would have to put this in a box. But from what I heard on youtube, generacs aren't that much better. I think if you want quiet, you need Onan's, WhisperWatts, other high end stuff. Air-cooled stuff seems to be basically, well, just lawnmower stuff, and there doesn't seem to be much getting around it, except for mebbe the Honda EU series, which are quite pricey..
Also, an extension hose on the muffler/exhaust is not going to be a slam dunk, either -- no pipe/flange to connect to, at least not at first glance.
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EA




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On 8/4/2012 12:16, Existential Angst wrote:
<SNIP>

I'd be concerned about the purity of the power (pure sine wave output?), and how it would handle the sudden current variations when the Fadal loads up.
--
Steve Walker
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Got it running, started immediately.
Plugged in the PC, cable box, ran fine. Sequentially loaded three 1200W heater, no problem. With 1,2, 3 heaters running, started a 7 1/4" circular saw repeatedly. Would hear the generator load (like gasoline powered welders), but the pyooter, cable box were fine. I was actually quite surprised, esp. with the circ. saw test.
It will be interesting to see how much I can load the genset and start something like a circ saw, before PC instability sets in. I am so far encouraged regarding the fadal stability.
I was orginally going to order a plain bolt-down unit, which could be fine for some installations, but the wheels/handles really help.. This unit is somewhere between 220 and 250#. The fadal will be tested in a cupla days.
What a fukn racket, tho.... holy shit.... But I don't think there's any avoiding this, in this price range, wattage.
--
EA



.net> wrote in message news:501d4ae8$0$11543$ snipped-for-privacy@cv.net...
> Awl --
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Existential Angst wrote:

My wife OK'ed getting a generator for the Y2K thing, which I knew was going to be a bust anyway. But, I've lived through a couple other prolonged outages, and they are a major annoyance. Had one when I was single and in the summer, and I just played on the computers at work until late at night, when it was cool enough to go home and sleep. That one lasted 3 or 4 days.
After getting the generator, we didn't have any outages for a long time, I occasionally got the thing out to run an outdoor power tool, just to keep the cylinder from rusting. Kind of like an umbrella keeps it from raining. Well, we finally had a serious ice storm about 5 years ago. Power was only out for about 14 hours, as we are pretty close to the main feeder for a large area.
Anyway, when the juice went off, I could hear the zorch-zorch-zorch of the recloser cycling, so I knew the entire 7200 Volt feeder was off from the substation, and figured this would take a while. So, I ran extension cords through the house to the furnace, and rewired the furnace for a dangling 120 V plug. Then I went to bed. About six AM my wife woke me up and said it was getting pretty cold. So, I went out to the garage, fired up the generator, plugged in the extension cords and powered the furnace, refrigerator and freezer, and charged some cell phones and flashlights. Ran it for about 90 minutes until all the appliances were done. That afternoon it started to get cold again indoors, but I walked around the neighborhood and some power contractors said they had our whole area cleared of branches and downed wires, but they had no idea when the power co. would turn on the feeder. Before I quite ready to start the generator again, the power came back on.
So, in 12 years, we have used it exactly ONCE for a normal outage. We have had a few other instances where our buried drop from the pole burned up due to idiots digging around for other utilities, but I just got the power co. out to fix it pretty quickly.
Now, depending where you are, your power may be a LOT less reliable than ours.
Jon
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