Where do you source circuit breakers that are NOT in typical box stores? o Carling AA3-B0-24-635-5D1-C (do you have a decoder for that number?)
PG&E has currently cut the power to us in California where this is the 31st sustained power outage in three years (of more than a day each, generally), so my generator has been doing triple duty as the backup source of power.
Over time, this 35 amp ganged circuit breaker partially broke inside.
It has "Carling Switch" molded on one side:
And this barely readable paper label on the other side:
The best I can make out from that data are these specs: Carling Switch Inc. AA2-B0-24-635-5D1-C FL AMP 35 MAX VOLTS 227 (? hard to tell) HERTZ 50/60 DELAY 04 (? hard to tell) TRIP AMPS 43 (? hard to tell) Mexico 9513 (probably the 13th week in 1995, likely original)
I called Generac's 24/7 live hotline, but they can't give me any more information than the owners manual, parts diagram, and references 888-GENERAC (888-436-3722) extension 4, extension 2 1-262-544-4811 extension 1, extension 2, extension 4, extension 2
This is the relevant page out of that Generac Owners Manual they sent me: o #5, Generac Part Number #74969, 35 Amp Circuit Breaker
Generac suggests these two outfits, who seem to charge astronomical prices: o $137.07 o $233.45 (877) 500-7499 x1
Hence, the basic question of how you source basic electrical parts.
Where do you source circuit breakers that are NOT in typical box stores? o Carling AA3-B0-24-635-5D1-C (do you have a decoder for that number?)
The government should make it a law the companies have to sell to individuals the repair parts and service manuals if they have them.
Years ago I was with a friend at a boat warehouse picking up some parts. A man wanted to buy a simple part,but they would not sell it to him as he was not a dealer. We bought the part for the man and sold it to him at our cost when he met us outside the warehouse. Most places would have doubled the price to him.
What really hirts is if a big company buys lots of items at high dollars and the manufactor goes out of busniness and they will not give or sell you a manual on the equipment when you buy it.
Thanks Clare for that purposefully helpful lookup, where I may have made an inadvertent typo at some point, as it's AA2 (2 pole), not AA3 (3 pole): o AA2-B0-24-635-5D1-C
Mouser doesn't stock this part, but they do have a decent datasheet:
I will need to call Mouser during business hours for price & availability: o (800) 346-6873, (817) 804-3888
Unfortunately, Newark also says "Not Normally Stocked":
But at least they list a price, where, the going "fair" rate is about $100 o $ 92.45 onlinecomponents.com o $ 95.53 newark.com o $137.07 jackssmallengines.com o $233.45 ordertree.com
The question is mainly HOW do you guys get hard-to-find electrical parts.
BTW, the smoke is everywhere easily smelled, strongly in the air, with that classic wood burning smell, where the most recent time this happened was the Paradise Fire, where the smoke traveled hundreds of miles to blanket the Silicon Valley as this smoke is just now starting to do today with the picking up of the wind in the past few hours.
That is a fairly normal form factor for industrial equipment and there are a half dozen companies that make breakers that would work for you. I may have one in the garage from IBM. Grainger might be a start locally but it helps there if you know someone with an account. The price is pretty flexible from list to 40% of list depending on how well they know you.
Thanks for that purposefully helpful advice on considering this breaker: o Square D QOB235 2 Pole Circuit Breaker
It would be nice if the circuit breaker fits reasonably well in the front:
Where, in the rear, it's less important how things bolt together: Where the Carling uses four 10-32 terminal bolts (lug type).
I thank you for not trolling, since it takes zero energy for the trolls to troll while you went to the trouble to find a decent fit, where what I'll do is trace out a paper cutout on the generator and take it with me to Home Depot or Ace to see if the $30 "Square D QOB235 2 Pole Circuit Breaker" can be retrofitted into that front panel hole.
Thanks for spending energy to bring items of value to the Usenet potluck.
This thread is about how to source hard-to-find electrical parts.
Given results below, the summary is things "can" be sourced. o But there must be a better way to source hard-to-find parts. For those times you want the part in your hand today.
While converting to a different part, particularly from a part that clearly failed prior to its 10,000 cycle rating, often works, and, I've often Rube Goldberg'd myself, given this is an electrical component attached to the mains, and given it has to be "to code", and given that it can kick in when I'm not home, my FIRST CHOICE (for the minor price difference of $30 for a different part & $100 for the right part anyway), is to try to source the correct part that has bolt holes in it, rather than an alternative that doesn't fit the weathertight outdoor generator enclosure attached to a huge source of propane:
Anyway, this thread is really not about the part per se, but how to SOURCE hard-to-find electrical parts, which is more of a TECHNIQUE than anything else.
On technique, I learned a lot about phone calls in the past few hours...
a. Part: Carling AA2-B0-24-635-5D1-C 35-amp circuit breaker b. Carling:
c. Carling suggests the long list of distributors (alphabetically) d. Bridge: 408-335-6700 (you need to pick a person & leave a msg) e. Avnet: 408-435-3500 (4-5 weeks lead time, $86.42) f. Bates: 408-400-9586 (the number has been disconnected) g. Digikey: 800-344-4539 (global sales only, min quantity is 20 parts) h. Master: 408-970-8090 (not in stock locally, two weeks, $92.45) i. Mouser: 817-804-3888 (not in stock, can send quote) j. Newark: 800-463-9275 (not in stock, minimum order is 2) k. Sager: 408-544-9500 (not in stock locally, can be ordered, $71.48) l. TTI: 510-668-0830 (not in stock, can only order in bulk) That's for the (mostly) local Carling so-called "distributors".
Now we get to local electrical parts suppliers... m. AlexanderElec: 831-457-3911 (left message) n. BayPower: 408-998-2980 (they don't stock, and can't order) o. CupertinoElec: 408-808-8000 (don't deal with individuals) p. Eckerman: 831-252-0987 (doesn't have any resource I don't have) q. EdgesElec: 408-293-5818 (don't stock, don't order) r. NicoElec: 408-446-4141 (left message) s. Pfeiffer: 408-436-8523 (they don't do residential) t. SprigElec: 408-298-3134 (transferred to sales, left message)
Where we already knew, from Generac, of these online sites: u. onlinecomponents.com $ 92.45 (stock situation unknown) v. jackssmallengines.com $137.07 (stock situation unknown) w. ordertree.com $233.45 (stock situation unknown)
And, of course, there is always the Internet: x. Amazon y. FusesUnlimited z. Walmart
Given those results, the summary is things "can" be sourced. o But there must be a better way to source hard-to-find parts. For those times you want the part in your hand today.
The generator has been running for 3 days now, where it quit sans warning earlier today, where a check of the 12VDC car battery showed it was down to
6 volts, so, obviously, the charging circuit wasn't working (there's a lot of corrosion on the battery terminals, but it starts up the generator just fine when it's at 12VDC).
I know the battery was fully charged as PG&E had given us a day's notice, so I had charged it for that day until the power went out 3 days ago.
The 8KWH generator has been burning propane at about 50 gallons a day (near as I can tell from the gauge on the propane tank, which isn't all that easy to read accurately), and where I used a jumper cable from a nearby vehicle to debug that it was the battery and then, once debugged, I swapped in a second car battery to keep the electricity going today (and put the dead battery on a charger): Looking inside each of the two transfer panels, one for each half of the house, they seem to be listed as 100 Amp service each based on this wording on the outside of the Generac part number
Where there are 4 fuses in each of those two panels, all of which are supposed to be the "uniquely sized" 600 Volt 2 Amp Buss SBS-2 fast acting fuses, where it currently has 4 and 5 amp Buss BBS-4 and Buss BBS-5 600 Volt fast acting fuses (which came with the transfer panel when I bought it) but where the 2AMP SBS-2 fuses have a similar (but not as bad) sourcing problem as does the circuit breaker.
This is, I think, OEM but based only on Ebay listings, which may be wrong: o This is original that the electrician originally put in the transfer panel: o
The house is 200 Amp service, where my understanding is that each half of the setup handles 100 Amps, but where I'm not sure why the original electrician put in 4amp and 5amp fuses when online, I see pictures of all sorts of sizes, but some of them are 2Amp fuses, so it's hard to tell what's the correct fuse amperage.
I don't see anything else inside the transfer panel that is fused.
Although the generator has the 35-amp circuit breaker & a fuse: Which is a typical 15-amp fuse shown in item #10 below:
You have a good memory, but, not quite good enough :) (I say that in good humor, as you do have a good memory, as do I on such things.)
Fact is, it's not that simple, where the problem is always in DEBUGGING.
Last time, I thought the problem was the relays, which, you'll see in this picture, were each labeled and then swapped (since the two 100Amp transfer panels are duplicates), and yet, they failed the same both ways.
We also didn't know if the problem was in the actual transfer solenoid, which, I must add, for one, I had to manually flip it, even this time, but with some things broken, I'm not sure if that's a first order or second order effect.
Thirdly, there were two fuses missing, where I replaced those two fuses in the interim.
And, fourthly, while I'm sure there is a testing sequence, you never really get to test these things under real world circumstances until power goes out.
Luckily, out here, in California, we don't have to wait long for THAT to happen, now do we?
In short, it wasn't until I did all that and the power went out, that I realized it was something else, which is when I finally took the breaker out and realized it was half broken (it doesn't LOOK bad from the outside, but it's bad in the inside).
Who knew? Not me. Until recently.
And, I only found out today, after three days running on propane, that the battery was at 6volts, where who knows WHY the battery isn't charging when the generator is running...
Luckily, Rube Goldberg borrowed a car, to jump the generator, and then another battery to use to run the generator, and then with the power in the house, I'm charging the original battery that has been on the generator for the past 3 days due to the PG&E mismanagement outage.
UPDATE: o SUGGESTION: SAVE THIS POST (IT CONTAINS VALUABLE SOURCES!)
This thread contains a TESTED WORKING PROCESS for hard-to-find parts o At the best price & stock possible, in quantities of 1, for homeowners
Being a good Usenet citizen, not only do I put energy into providing tons of detail within the thread, but I always try to summarize the solution, so that others coming here, in the foreseeable future, benefit from our efforts), where this summary will reside in the permanent web-searchable archives:
This summary will reside in these permanent web-searchable archives: o o o Series A, 277VAC, 80VDC, 10,000 cycles
D -> labeling is ON/OFF in white, everything else black
1 -> 6-32 x 0.195 inches
C -> UL approved, CSA certified
o Amazon o FusesUnlimited o Walmart
Carling, themselves part of a huge conglomerate, had a lost of a score or so of local "recommended distributors", again, only a very few of which had the part in stock who would sell in quantities of 1, but at a high price - but it turns out there's a better way (see trick later in this post) to bypass that score of parts distributor phone calls.
Carling AA2-B0-24-635-5D1-C 35-amp circuit breaker o Carling:
o Bridge: 408-335-6700 (you need to pick a person & leave a msg) o Avnet: 408-435-3500 (4-5 weeks lead time, $86.42) o Bates: 408-400-9586 (the number has been disconnected) o Digikey: 800-344-4539 (global sales only, min quantity is 20 parts) o Master: 408-970-8090 (not in stock locally, two weeks, $92.45) o Mouser: 817-804-3888 (not in stock, can send quote) o Newark: 800-463-9275 (not in stock, minimum order is 2) o Sager: 408-544-9500 (not in stock locally, can be ordered, $71.48) o TTI: 510-668-0830 (not in stock, can only order in bulk)
Thanks to the purposefully helpful suggestion by gfretwell, I called Grainger who put me in touch with technical support who told me that they definitely do not carry and cannot purchase the "right" circuit breaker, but that the 40-amp circuit breaker might work in a pinch.
The critical items, of course, are the type of rear connection, which is what's different in the two Grainger alternatives, but which isn't obvious in the Grainger photos because the photos don't show the all important rear of the circuit breaker (spade type tend to vibrate off in generator applications, I'm told, and anyway, it's an unnecessary retrofit).
The 40-amp Carling breaker that Grainger does carry, as gfretwell astutely noted though, is pretty damn close (far better than the SquareD Q0B235, which was also a purposefully helpful suggestion that was posed prior).
Circuit Breaker, Magnetic Circuit Breaker Type, Toggle Switch Type, Number of Poles: 2 Grainger # 10C608 Mfr. Model # BA2-B0-34-640-521-C Catalog Page # 201 UNSPSC # 39121601
Circuit Breaker, Magnetic Circuit Breaker Type, Toggle Switch Type, Number of Poles: 2 Grainger # 3XC74 Mfr. Model # CA2-BO-34-640-111-C Catalog Page # 201 UNSPSC # 39121602
I had never called Grainger before (always assuming they're the most expensive), but, at $40 anyway, they are actually the cheapest, by far, but they too didn't have the right part.
In the end, the BEST solution (if we don't go with the alternatives), is this URL which was kindly supplied to be by one of the Carling distributors (who said it's what _he uses_ to source _his_ parts!):
*That's a neat trick!* o *My advice is to _SAVE THAT URL_*!
(That one URL is better than almost everything attempted to date to obtain the part in stock at the best price possible today.)
BTW, Bob Engelhardt, who purposefully helpfully and very kindly suggested the SquareD Q0B235 was on to something when he noted that the original part clearly failed its 10,000 cycle promise, as that breaker couldn't possibly have had more than a few score cycles in its short lifetime, given that it's not a part you generally touch unless you're working on the generator and want to disconnect it from the house (where you're more likely to just pull the 15-amp generator fuse on the front panel to prevent a start):
That 15-amp fuse is item #10 in this Generac exploded diagram):
The part is on order, thanks to purposefully helpful folks on this repair-related group.
Spade connectors are really pretty robust if you get the heavy duty ones and they are in most motors where vibration is a regular thing. The question is whether that feeder is getting overload 0protection at the panel end? If so the 40 will still be fine to protect the conductors. A 35a breaker for a panel board will be a part you can get if that is not what you have there.