Who needs thru-spindle coolant?

Awl --
Prototypers proly don't; shops lucky enough to be doing large runs surely benefit. The Q is: at what point in production does thru-spindle coolant really
start to pay off? Tooling is also VERY expensive, in addition to the cost of the machine option itself.
How much "less messy-er" is thru-spindle coolant than flood coolant? If considerably less messy, this could be a plus with an "open" machine.
Here's another Q: I believe there is *very high psi* flood coolant, up to 3,000 psi, iirc, but proly more typically 1,000 psi -- which is still hellified. What max psi is thru-spindle coolant offered? Is there a break-even point, performance-wise, between thru-spindle coolant and a much higher psi flood coolant?
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wrote:

Good info. Proly not for me, tho. Doubtful I'll have those types of ops, and the tooling cost just makes my knees buckle. But for shops that do do that type of stuff, the option/tooling could pay for itself in one job.
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You Don't NEED special tooling to take advantage of TSC. Just pressurizing a collet, the coolant will shoot out the slots onto your drill or endmill.
In the case of a pocket, depending on chip evacuation, the difference can be pretty amazing. Dribble coolant just won't blast the chips out of the way, but high pressure will allow much faster running and longer tool life with better finish.
Well worth EVERY penny if you get it on a new machine.
You can use it for drilling too. Even with regular drills. It Really gets the coolant where you need it. I got a job one day, 20,000 1/8" holes in aluminum.... Best addition to the machine so far, That day.
Macro B is also worth EVERY penny... But that is yet another discussion. Especially if you do some prototyping!
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wrote:

You Don't NEED special tooling to take advantage of TSC. Just pressurizing a collet, the coolant will shoot out the slots onto your drill or endmill.
In the case of a pocket, depending on chip evacuation, the difference can be pretty amazing. Dribble coolant just won't blast the chips out of the way, but high pressure will allow much faster running and longer tool life with better finish.
Well worth EVERY penny if you get it on a new machine. ====================================================This would work only with collet-type holders, right? The coolant has enough velocity and "correct aim" to do this??
You can use it for drilling too. Even with regular drills. It Really gets the coolant where you need it. I got a job one day, 20,000 1/8" holes in aluminum.... Best addition to the machine so far, That day. =======================================================Drill in a collet? No thru-hole in drill? How deep a hole?
Macro B is also worth EVERY penny... But that is yet another discussion. Especially if you do some prototyping! =========================================================Macro B is Fanuc only? What about Haas controls?
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Can you restate that as a question?
TSC is vastly more effective at getting the coolant where you want it, and getting the chips blasted out of deep pockets, etc. Squirting through the collet slots is Very effective. The aim is very excellent. You need enough flow to build pressure to blast through the collet slots.
As far as how deep can drill???? How should I know? Without special drills, you are getting much better coolant delivery, but not at the tip of the drill, or tip of the tool. When you need, you have it. When that one job shows up, it will be worth it!
As far as holding drills in collets, that almost all I use, is ER16 or ER32 collets.
There are some drill chucks under the bench, I don't remember when I last used them. The collets hold SO much better. The tools are all the same length, and the flood coolant does not need to be adjusted for a tool change.
What was your question?
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wrote:

Can you restate that as a question?
TSC is vastly more effective at getting the coolant where you want it, and getting the chips blasted out of deep pockets, etc. Squirting through the collet slots is Very effective. The aim is very excellent. You need enough flow to build pressure to blast through the collet slots.
As far as how deep can drill???? How should I know? Without special drills, you are getting much better coolant delivery, but not at the tip of the drill, or tip of the tool. When you need, you have it. When that one job shows up, it will be worth it!
As far as holding drills in collets, that almost all I use, is ER16 or ER32 collets.
There are some drill chucks under the bench, I don't remember when I last used them. The collets hold SO much better. The tools are all the same length, and the flood coolant does not need to be adjusted for a tool change.
What was your question? ====================================================What exactly is Macro B, and how does it differ from Fadal or Haas macros? I gather Macro B is a fanuc-type deal....
I'm leaning strongly toward ordering the TSC..... we'll see what Haas does for me... I'll proly be doing the renshaw probing as well.
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Macro B, (and I don't know What Haas calls, or if it is an option, or standard) allows you to write computer programs in amongst your G- code. You can even write programs, and set up your control so that the program is ran insted of your normal, or custom G Codes, M Codes, or T Codes.
So, you can write a whole program that is called up every time it sees an M6, for example. This new program could do stuff like count how many times you use a certain tool, it could do some extra table motions, it could automatically instate a G43, well anything...
The Probe uses a skip signal. With the Macro B you can write your own probing routines.
Or you can even do stuff like..... I once had a barrel cam layout in 2D. The cam itself was made of 24 segments, and was 34" in diameter. I made the segments with a 9" rotary table. It could not swing a 34" diameter obviously.. So I sent the 2D layout to the control. A Macro was able to do the math on the fly from the 2D layout, to swing the rotary table with the segment in it. Since it was swinging it on a different radius than the layout of the cam, it moved the machine in X,Y,Z, and A simultaneously, to compensate for the way that the segment was gyrating on the table.
The moves were .002" at time, but the control was able to do all the calculations to wrap the cam profile layout in 2D onto the 34" diameter, then swing the part through the off center arc it was mounted on on the rotary table, and calculate all the moves to match the motion.
On my Robodrill, I got a probe off of Ebay, and wired it into the control. A Macro call then pulls up the tool, rotates it if needed, and comps sideways if needed, and measures the length of the tool, and stores the comp values in whatever offset register you specify.
For short runs, this pays for itself in a matter of hours... Over, and Over again..
The dealer quoted about $16,000 for the probes, and install.. I spent $400 for a new in the box, tool probe, and wrote the macro. Also found a new spindle probe, and the optical interface, and bought the Macros from Renishaw. Total cost was under $4,000
If you have the probe, you really need/want the Macro option. Again, don't know if the Macro is an option or included with the Haas.
With the Macros turned on, you can do a lot of neat tricks in the control.
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On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 00:14:09 -0400, Existential Angst wrote:

3000 PSI? Couldn't you just make the cut with the coolant, then?
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Yeah, I was thinkin that myself.... But then mebbe carbide can take it.... :) Heh, mebbe the coolant deburrs/chamfers while the cut is being made.... LOL
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My work is mostly onesy twosies and TSC is a life saver. Spade drills, face mills, inserted roughers, etc. Worth every penny it cost.
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How so? Time? Tool wear? That big of a deal on onesy/twosies? Isn't the tooling very expensive for one-offs, or are you able to benefit from TSC without TSC tools, like Crossslide was saying?
I was under the impression face milling was generally done dry, bec of the interrupted cut-type machining.
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Spade drills, face
> mills, inserted roughers, etc. Worth every penny it cost.
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You can't hardly use a spade drill without TSC to blast the chips out of the holes. Also indispensable for plunge milling, once again, to get the chips away from the tool and work so you don't recut them and fuck up the inserts.
Some inserts I use in face mills are recommended for dry cutting, others wet.
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