Asking again

I still can't wrap my head around how 220v works. I.e. the analogy of the water tap and drain, how would that work in this case seeing that there is
no apparent drain(neutral)? How does the current flow/circuit? sorry for hammering this again but I need to be able to see this in laymans terms thanks req
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reqluq wrote:

Think of a flashlight. One wire carries current from the battery to to the bulb, the other returns it to the battery. On an electrical system, current flows from the source to the load on one wire (the faucet), and from the load back to the source on the other wire (the drain). Don't get confused by a neutral wire. It may or may not be one of the circuit wires involved, and it doesn't matter. Current flows through a complete circuit.
AC current reverses direction 50 or 60 times/second so the "out" and "in" wires constantly reverse, but that doesn't change the principle.
--
Benjamin D Miller, PE www.bmillerengineering.com
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We're talking about 220 volt system no? req

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If you like a water (hydraulic) analogy, understand that energy is transmitted by the pressure and flow rate in a continuous loop from a pump to a motor. It can be confusing to think of a faucet and drain, think "supply" and "return". If you have 2 pipes, the fluid comes in one pipe and goes out the other. In an alternating system, the flow reverses every so often but you can still send power from the pump to the motor. For a hydraulic analogy of the 110/220 system, imagine three parallel pipes and two pumps, one from the center pipe to the top and one from the bottom to the center (with a tee connection). The top pump pushes the fluid out the top pipe.while the bottom pipe sucks the fluid from the bottom pipe. You can connect a motor from the top to the bottom pipes and have both pumps in series pushing the fluid thru it (high pressure like 220V). You can also connect motors from the center pipe to either outer pipe and have only one pump running them (low pressure like 110V). No matter how many motors you have connected, if the top pipe is flowing 20 gallons per minute toward the motors and the lower pipe is flowing 20 GPM away from the motors, no fluid is flowing in the middle pipe. If you have more flow on the top pipe than the bottom pipe, the difference flows thru the middle pipe.
If you draw this out on paper, it should help you understand.
Don Young
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The water analogy is the one I know, feel free to give others :-) Supply and return 110v: Postive to neutral. Supply and return 220v: postitive to positive to:? Where is the flow in the 220 circuit with 2 wires?
req

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reqluq wrote:

You are thinking incorrectly about the polarities. The two lines are not both positive at the same time! One is + and the other is -, so current flows between them. AC voltage alternates, so the + & - conductors switch every half cycle, but one is always more positive than the other and the direction of current flow changes accordingly.
--
Benjamin D Miller, PE
www.bmillerengineering.com
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----------------------------
remove the X to answer
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Yes in two batteries there are 2 postives and 2 negatives.But, in a 220v system there are no negatives, only two positives , 110v and 110v . You understand what I am trying to figure? req
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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com says...

There aren't "two positives". At any given time one of the "legs" is negative (with respect to "neutral").
--
Keith

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So it's only 110v sytem them? You understand what I am trying to figure? If 110 goes from positive to negative and 220 goes from postive to negative(one of the legs being used as negative) how do I get 220volts? Why do I need the other 110 line if it's only going to be used as a negative.. I might as well use the same negative that I use in the 110v system. You see what I'm getting at? req
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reqluq snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote previously in alt.engineering.electrical:
<snip>

Your problem seems to be in understanding AC current. This kind of current changes as a sinusoidal 60 FULL cycles (from "0" to + to "0" to - to "0") per second. That's 120 changes per second: +0-0+0-0+0.....
Let's analyze the parts of the system:
1.- There are two distinct and different HOT wires (what you call 110v). They are "in opposite phases" or "opposite voltages". They are not equal. When one wire is 110V positive in relation to neutral, the other one is 110v negative in relation to neutral. This changes with time.
2.- Let's stop time for a moment. The electrical laws work exactly the same. Let's assume that HOT1 is positive, that is +110v. Then HOT2 is -110v. That's is 220v measured from HOT1 to HOT2. Exactly as the voltage of the two batteries is summed when they are in series. Current could flow from positive HOT1 to neutral (110v) or from positive HOT1 to negative HOT2 (220v).
But in a little more time (1/120 of a second) this voltages are reversed and HOT1 would be -110v while HOT2 will be +110v measured in relation to neutral.
So, as time passes, both HOT's change voltage, but in a specific relation between them. If one is getting positive, the other is getting negative.
Hope this helps.
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wrote previously in

What neutral? there are two hot wires hooked up, no neutral connected. How are they in opposites phases? If I run two identical 110v generators I have 110 coming from one and 110 from the other that would run a 220v appliace no? Are they in "opposite voltage"?

How so? suppose hot2 wants to be positive? what makes them at a given time opposed? I could see if some computer system was running it but...

yes, but as I said before I can see the positive and negative ends of the two batteries, and I have to hook up the positive to one end of somethng and negative to the other for it to work. Flow.

What synchronises this? suppose they both want to be positie at the same time?how does one know the other s positive at a given time so it can be negative..and what of 3 or 4 phase then? I ran a welding machine once that used three 110v lines.

Well as u can see I'm still a bit lost..what of 360 or 440 (80?) volts then? req
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reqluq snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote previously in alt.engineering.electrical:

Sorry, I'm am out of here.
You better take a basic electrical course, then ask again.
Have a nice day.
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Thanks Roy , Antonio and others for trying to help with this. I'm just trying to see it in its simplest terms. Not just taking it for granted that that is how it is. Thanks again req
wrote previously in

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wrote previously in

And that would give me an understanding you folks can't give me here?
req
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reqluq snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote previously in alt.engineering.electrical:

Perhaps that would give you a better attitude to _listen_ and _think_ before spiting out a string of nonsense questions.
Challenging every bit of knowledge being shared is just an exercise in futility.
Try to be a bit more open to what is being explained to you and maybe, only maybe, you would reach an understanding quicker.
AP
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wrote in message

What are you talking about? Asking questions on what is explained to try and get a better grasp is challenging something? Sorry I didn't know I couldn't ask more questions.req
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reqluq snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote previously in alt.engineering.electrical:
<sniped>

You could ask as long as you want, that's your choice.
I could refrain to answer nonsense questions, that's my choice.
AP
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wrote previously in

To me it's not nonsense, bring your snobbish nose down req
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reqluq snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote previously in alt.engineering.electrical:

That attitude toward others is _exactly_ why you don't deserve help.
AP
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