Asking again

Only if the two generators were synchronized in frequency and in antiphase. Highly unlikely unless specific provisions are made to assure the synchronization is constantly applied and the conductors are properly attached. Based on your questions I would not recommend you try this at home before you take that electronics class.

peace dawg

Say you are on top of a building 110 metres high, and there is a 110 meter hole in the ground below.

The building height is +110m relative to ground ... The hole dept is -110m relative to ground.

Now jump. What distance would you travel to the bottom of the hole?

Ok so why can't you get 220v from one cable then? Doesn't one wire do the same thing: oscillate from +110 to -110? so is that 220v? req

So you are saying that there is some form of synchronisation going on at the plant to let one wire be used opposite to the other at a time? Then back to the question of; can you hook up some kind of relay switch with one 110v wire and send 110 to one side of the 220v appliance and then switch over and send 110 to the other leg hence 220v? Just to be clear what I am saying: you say that when one line of the 220 system is sending 110 to the appliance the other is acting as neutral. Then the one that was neutral sends 110v and the other is now the neutral? So I can in essence send 220v using one wire: I have a switch or solenoid whatever that the 110 wire is hooked up to; It has two wires from it one to one side of the appliance and the other to the other side.a neutral (for these purposes) is factored in. So current comes on one side of the appliance then the switch switches over to the other side and send a 110v there back and forth and so on. Hence 220v no? req

Generally, no.

Your house is supplied from a single 220 V transformer which is center-tapped, and the "neutral" wire is connected to that centre tap. A device that needs 220 V is connected to the two "hot" wires and sees

220 V. But you can also connect 110 V devices between either "hot" wire and the "neutral", since only half the transformer winding will supply the power, and it thus gets half the voltage.

Half of your 110 V devices will be connected to one side of the transformer, and the other half to the other side, more or less. At any given moment, some of your 110 V devices are receiving voltage of the opposite polarity from the other devices, but that doesn't bother them.

Similarly, if you have a *single* 220 V generator with a centre tap, you can connect both 220 V loads and 110 V loads.

But, unless you have special synchronization controls on the two generators, you can't connect two 110 V generators to make 220 V, because two generators will not stay exactly 180 degrees apart in phase at the same frequency.

If you have one 220V generator that isn't big enough for your load, you can connect another 220 V generator *in parallel* with it such that both share the load. But it requires special equipment to bring the two generators in sync before they are connected (if not, you'll destroy one or both of them), and to share the load evenly.

Dave

No, because that single wire is not at +110 and -110 at the same time, AND the potential mesurement is made between that wire and ground, and will be 110V AC.

No, you can not send current to an appliance over one wire! You are getting the answers, but you are not equipped with the knowledge to understand them. You need a better knowledge of basic electricity, what a circuit is, etc. You can't get it with a few responses on a newsgroup. As was suggested, you either need to take a course or else study a good textbook on the subject.

Yes I know; I put my tester on the two hots and it shows 220v. How it does is the mystery

But you can also connect 110 V devices between either "hot" wire

Thank you Thank you Dave. I always thought when I see 2 or three transformers that was 2 or 3 110 volt cables. I didn't realise the transformer itself was 220 and two wires of 110v would come off it. It's slowly getting a bit clearer.

Great that's kinda of what I gathered reading in here so far. So what keeps the two 110s from the transformer exactly 180 degrees apart assuming the power to the transformer is from one source?

cool thanks req

I thought that was what is needed; to be + and then - hence the *alternate* I think I need to get into how the power, the electrons, move through the system. req

reqluq snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote previously in alt.engineering.electrical:

Perhaps that would give you a better attitude to _listen_ and _think_ before spiting out a string of nonsense questions.

Challenging every bit of knowledge being shared is just an exercise in futility.

Try to be a bit more open to what is being explained to you and maybe, only maybe, you would reach an understanding quicker.

AP

What are you talking about? Asking questions on what is explained to try and get a better grasp is challenging something? Sorry I didn't know I couldn't ask more questions.req

Just want to thank all for the indulgence. I will read up on this and keep your explanations as a reference. I think I've got enough variances to get a grip on this subject. Once again thanks all. We can consider this thread in essence funeralised. Anymore thoughts will be appreciated but I think I've asked all I can, I'll get back when I (hopefully) have a full understanding. Thanks req

You can't run *ANY* circuit with one wire. It's called a "circuit" for a reason.

No. With only one wire there cannot be a "positive" or a "negative". Voltage is always referenced to another point.

Between positive and negative.

No, there is 110V from each to neutral. Neutral is fixed (or defined to be) in the middle, so there is 220V from one to the other.

-------------------- It can be done in theory (using both lines from each generator and connecting the + of one to the -of the other just as with batteries) that way but I wouldn't recommend it. Practical problems do arise with AC as it would be necessary to synchronise the machines (bring them to exactly the same frequency, voltage magnitude and phase). This is routine for generators on the grid but they are not in series. While it has been done for DC , it is a hassle- particularly for the inexperienced, and as far as I know it hasn't been done for AC although it has been done for DC about 100 years ago (Thury DC link).

It is simply not worth the effort to do it. It is much easier to use a single generator with a center tap (neutral) on the winding than to use two machines- and this is what is done for 120/240V machines.

For a transformer the primary is single phase -say 2400V and the secondary is then a 240V winding which is center tapped so that one can get 120V from either end to the neutral.

This 3 wire system was originally set up by Edison for DC systems and later adapted to AC use.

That I can understand:

220 Volt Wiring Explained

I think its time for me to explain about 220 current and why it is so different from 110 volt service. First of all, it's twice as big. Secondly, it'll shock you more. Outside of that, 220 is really two 110 volt lines coming to your house from different parts of the globe. The up and down 110 comes from the northern hemisphere, and the down and up version comes from below the equator. Without trying to get technical, it all boils down to the direction water flows when it goes down the drain. In the top of the earth, it goes clockwise, while on the bottom of the earth it goes counter clockwise. Since most electricity is made from hydro dams, the clockwise flow gives you an up and down sine wave, while the counterclockwise version gives you a down and up sine wave. Between the two, you have 220 volts, while either individual side only gives you 110 volts. This is particularly important to know when buying power tools- which side of the globe did they come from? If you get an Australian saw, for instance, it will turn backwards if connected to a US generated 110 volt source. Sure, you can buy backwards blades for it, but that is an unnecessary burden. Other appliances, like toasters cannot be converted from Australian electricity to American electricity, without horrible results. I knew one person who bought an Australian toaster by mistake and it froze the slices of bread she put in it. If you wire your shop with 220 and accidentally get two US-generated 110 volt lines run in by accident, you can get 220 by using a trick I learned from an old electrician. Just put each source into its own fuse box and then turn one of the boxes upside down. That'll invert one of the two up and down sine waves to down and up, giving you 220. DO NOT just turn the box sideways, since that'll give you 165 volts and you'll be limited to just using Canadian tools with i

Drivel!

Bill

You can get 220 from one set of wires. A hot and a neutral. I believe that is how it works in Europe.

But in North America that is not how it works. Why? Because the 220 is derived from a center tapped transformer out on the power poll. I it is called single phase 220. With the single phase 220 there are two hots and a neutral, and the neutral is grounded. If you take just the two hots you have the same thing as in Europe, but you can not ground one of them like you can in Europe or you short one side to ground.

peace dawg

NO! The synchronization is happening in the transformer on the power poll out in front of your house.

Then back to

NO! If you load is ballanced there is no current flow in the neutral and it can be ignored. Neither of the hots ever acts as the neutral.

Then

NO! You have both hots going max positive and max negative at one time (220) then going max negative and max positive at one time (220) Alterntely switching in phase 110 will never put

220 across the load at any given time, it will just remove power from each leg half of the time.

Peace dawg