Asking again

Antonio Perez snipped-for-privacy@gmx.com wrote previously in alt.engineering.electrical:


If you want help, be humble, not arrogant.
"Honey attracts bees, bile drives everyone away"
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote previously in

Don't turn this around on me, you were the one calling things nonsense. i don't have to take that. you are being arrogant. somehow in your mind because i ask for knowledge, you seem to think i am beneath you req
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
reqluq snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote previously in alt.engineering.electrical:

As you are ASKING, certainly you are beneath me (as you want to put it) in this small, specific topic. If I call things nonsense is because I know better about that. Be more receptive and you will learn. I still believe that is possible for you.
But this is not important, what matters is that once answers has been kindly, with good intentions, given to you, you thwarted them, without exerting some analysis and thinking.
Instead of thinking and describing what you understood of what was given, you asked unrelated questions, as if all the knowledge you need could be condensed in one very simple "layman" phrase.
You need to learn a lot of things, learn to use the language of the trade, and listen to what others explain to you.
Again:
If you want help, be humble, not arrogant.
AP
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote previously in

And there you have it.. I knew I had you pegged correctly

I *thwarted* them? How did I *thwart* and answer? Look stop looking for trouble and go to bed. Drink some mango koolaid.. lots of sugar.

I guarantee u when I understand this fully I'll be back with the layman's explanation.

I listened but had more questions, to clarify...just beause I don't understand your explanations doesn't mean I should act as if I did .

Where was I arrogant in my questions? point that out..only when u come with your *I'm the senior man in here so bow down* attitude did I have to put you in your place.
req

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
reqluq snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote previously in alt.engineering.electrical:

Fine, do it in your own time, I am through with you.
"There is no one more blind than the one that doesn't want to see."
AP
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
----------------------------
remove the X to answer
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

So you are saying I get 220v from one transformer? So if I had to separate generators each putting out 110v, could I take a line from each and connect it to a device and it would work? req
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Only if the two generators were synchronized in frequency and in antiphase. Highly unlikely unless specific provisions are made to assure the synchronization is constantly applied and the conductors are properly attached. Based on your questions I would not recommend you try this at home before you take that electronics class.
peace dawg

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

So you are saying that there is some form of synchronisation going on at the plant to let one wire be used opposite to the other at a time? Then back to the question of; can you hook up some kind of relay switch with one 110v wire and send 110 to one side of the 220v appliance and then switch over and send 110 to the other leg hence 220v? Just to be clear what I am saying: you say that when one line of the 220 system is sending 110 to the appliance the other is acting as neutral. Then the one that was neutral sends 110v and the other is now the neutral? So I can in essence send 220v using one wire: I have a switch or solenoid whatever that the 110 wire is hooked up to; It has two wires from it one to one side of the appliance and the other to the other side.a neutral (for these purposes) is factored in. So current comes on one side of the appliance then the switch switches over to the other side and send a 110v there back and forth and so on. Hence 220v no? req
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
reqluq wrote:

No, you can not send current to an appliance over one wire! You are getting the answers, but you are not equipped with the knowledge to understand them. You need a better knowledge of basic electricity, what a circuit is, etc. You can't get it with a few responses on a newsgroup. As was suggested, you either need to take a course or else study a good textbook on the subject.
--
Benjamin D Miller, PE
www.bmillerengineering.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Ben; if you read my earlier posts you would see I am asking for laymans terms. If it can't be explained in laymans terms say so. I've read books that explain e=mc2 etc. very plainly. req

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

NO! The synchronization is happening in the transformer on the power poll out in front of your house.
Then back to

NO! If you load is ballanced there is no current flow in the neutral and it can be ignored. Neither of the hots ever acts as the neutral.
Then

NO! You have both hots going max positive and max negative at one time (220) then going max negative and max positive at one time (220) Alterntely switching in phase 110 will never put 220 across the load at any given time, it will just remove power from each leg half of the time.
Peace dawg

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Generally, no.
Your house is supplied from a single 220 V transformer which is center-tapped, and the "neutral" wire is connected to that centre tap. A device that needs 220 V is connected to the two "hot" wires and sees 220 V. But you can also connect 110 V devices between either "hot" wire and the "neutral", since only half the transformer winding will supply the power, and it thus gets half the voltage.
Half of your 110 V devices will be connected to one side of the transformer, and the other half to the other side, more or less. At any given moment, some of your 110 V devices are receiving voltage of the opposite polarity from the other devices, but that doesn't bother them.
Similarly, if you have a *single* 220 V generator with a centre tap, you can connect both 220 V loads and 110 V loads.
But, unless you have special synchronization controls on the two generators, you can't connect two 110 V generators to make 220 V, because two generators will not stay exactly 180 degrees apart in phase at the same frequency.
If you have one 220V generator that isn't big enough for your load, you can connect another 220 V generator *in parallel* with it such that both share the load. But it requires special equipment to bring the two generators in sync before they are connected (if not, you'll destroy one or both of them), and to share the load evenly.
    Dave
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
writes:

Yes I know; I put my tester on the two hots and it shows 220v. How it does is the mystery
But you can also connect 110 V devices between either "hot" wire

Thank you Thank you Dave. I always thought when I see 2 or three transformers that was 2 or 3 110 volt cables. I didn't realise the transformer itself was 220 and two wires of 110v would come off it. It's slowly getting a bit clearer.

Great that's kinda of what I gathered reading in here so far. So what keeps the two 110s from the transformer exactly 180 degrees apart assuming the power to the transformer is from one source?

cool thanks req
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
----------------------------

-------------------- It can be done in theory (using both lines from each generator and connecting the + of one to the -of the other just as with batteries) that way but I wouldn't recommend it. Practical problems do arise with AC as it would be necessary to synchronise the machines (bring them to exactly the same frequency, voltage magnitude and phase). This is routine for generators on the grid but they are not in series. While it has been done for DC , it is a hassle- particularly for the inexperienced, and as far as I know it hasn't been done for AC although it has been done for DC about 100 years ago (Thury DC link).
It is simply not worth the effort to do it. It is much easier to use a single generator with a center tap (neutral) on the winding than to use two machines- and this is what is done for 120/240V machines.
For a transformer the primary is single phase -say 2400V and the secondary is then a 240V winding which is center tapped so that one can get 120V from either end to the neutral.
This 3 wire system was originally set up by Edison for DC systems and later adapted to AC use.
--

Don Kelly snipped-for-privacy@shawcross.ca
remove the X to answer
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com says...

It's 120V, but there are two of them to make 240V (between them).

Yes, you're over-figuring. ;-)

Here is where your misconception is. True, each "leg" goes from positive to negative (with respect to neutral), but at different times. When one leg is positive the other is negative. The *difference* between them is 240V.

Sure, I see what you're where your misconception is but it's buried deep in your mind. ;-) The other line is not being used "as a negative". Both are positive and both are negative (hence "alternating" current), but at opposite times. The *difference* (voltage is always a difference - there is no absolute) between one leg and neutral is 120V. The difference between the other leg and neutral is 120V. The difference between the two is 240V, since when one is positive other is equally negative, at any given time. 1/120th second later they're at opposite polarities.
--
Keith

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

So why can't you run 110v with one wire? The positive would come up and the negative could run back down the same line; theoretically no? req

Keith
If one is positive at one given time and the other negative at that same time, where is the 220v? I see 110v at one time from one or the other, not simultaneously, so how 220v? req
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
reqluq wrote:

Say you are on top of a building 110 metres high, and there is a 110 meter hole in the ground below.
The building height is +110m relative to ground ... The hole dept is -110m relative to ground.
Now jump. What distance would you travel to the bottom of the hole?
--
Adrian C

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Ok so why can't you get 220v from one cable then? Doesn't one wire do the same thing: oscillate from +110 to -110? so is that 220v? req
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
reqluq wrote:

No, because that single wire is not at +110 and -110 at the same time, AND the potential mesurement is made between that wire and ground, and will be 110V AC.
--
Adrian C

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Polytechforum.com is a website by engineers for engineers. It is not affiliated with any of manufacturers or vendors discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.