Help! Which Generator?

We've no mains power in the garage, which is quite a bit away from the house. So I'm looking for a petrol generator to charge my mother's
electric mobility scooter.
The charger is the usual constant voltage type used for charging sealed lead-acid batteries, and has the following info on the side plate:
INPUT: 100-120/200-240 VAC, 50/60Hz, 4A OUTPUT: 24VDC/8A
1. How powerful a generator would I need (in 'continuous' watts or KVA) to comfortably run this charger?
2. Would any suitably-rated charger suffice? OR would I need to buy one of those very expensive digital 'inverter' types like the Honda EU20i or something similar.
I shall be much obliged for any guidance. TIA.
BTW - is 1 watt the same as 1 KVA? I'm confused.
Karen
P.S. I'm in the UK.
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Karen, a small generator should suffice to charge batteries. if you are charging 24 volts at 8 amps you are charging at 192 watts, however due to the length of time needed to charge the batteries, the probability that the generator will be left unattended, the fire hazard, fume hazard, the cussedness of getting these things to start sometimes, the necessity for maintenance and oil changes, and the fact that these things wear out sooner or later, i would suggest that you have electric service installed (run a wire) if it possible for you to do so.
you might even talk someone into getting you an electric garage door opener for Christmas :)
1 kW is not exactly the same as 1 kVA but in this case its bound to be pretty close.
if you do decide to get the generator you might look for one with a 24V DC output. then there would at least be one less gizmo to catch fire when you aren't looking :)
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On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 01:16:41 -0500, "TimPerry"

Thanks for your help Tim and I hear what you're saying about getting electric installed. However, that's not an option for several reasons - the main ones being distance from the house and the fact that over here in the UK power companies make 'standing charges' for metered electricity which can result in one's quarterly 'standing charge' being much more than the amount of electricity used.
Also - would I be correct in assuming that a cable from the house would result in a considerable voltage drop over a 100 metre run? I seem to recall something about this from school physics lessons ;-) If so, would it affect the operation of this charger?
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sory, i dont understand this :) is that like a flat rate plus usage? and it would cost more to run a branch from existing service?

you are correct but lets try some rough calculations to see how much the loss will be.
your estimated load was less then 200 watts. add a little loss in the charger lets call it 200 watts.
200 watts / 220 volts = .9 amps
100 M = 328 feet
10 AWG wire has .9989 ohms per 1000 FT (according to the first handy chart i found http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm) lets round that off to 1 ohm per thousand
328 / 1000 x 1 = .328 ohms.
now since it take 2 wires to make a circuit we multiply by 2 to get a total of .656 ohms
the formula for voltage drop is I squared R so .9 x .9 x .656 = .53 volts.
of course if you are going to wire your garage you will probably add in a light :)
being in the USA i picked 10 AWG wire. i hear wire tends smaller sizes in the UK. fortunately the calculations stay the same.
i have a number of generators at work that i am responsible for. some are small and portable and some are fixed and generate 100,000 watts. ALL of them are a pain in the posterior in one way or another. i had a problem with one blowing an overcrank breaker instead if starting when it was needed. the factory feild service charged me $600 USD to tell me that my transfer switch was way too old and i needed a new one.
i have a brand new $40,000 USD generator sitting there, not working because a second stage propane regulator is on back order.
sorry to get side tracked here... i don't know what your situation is in regards to running overhead or underground cable... maybe a long extension cord would work :) maybe a little shed next to the house just for the electric cart.
if you do get a little generator, try to find one with a fuel tank large enough to run for a long time. i would not be to happy about having to set an alarm to get up at 3 AM to refill a tank.
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On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 21:51:11 -0500, "TimPerry"

Yes. They make a charge for using their meter ;-) Then each unit of electricity used is charged on top of that. To give you an idea - when pop was alive his annual bill for units was much less than the annual standing charge - so being a canny Scotsman he asked them to disconnect the service. That was about 20 years ago. Now we 're sorry he did that of course...
Meanwhile, I'm very grateful for your calculations and will keep them for reference. 0.53 volts on the wire gauge you quote doesn't seem much, does it? And the charger is quite tolerant when it comes to input voltages. Whereas the little shed next to the house is something we did not think of. In fact - there's space for one round the back. I shall look into this tomorrow. The main problem with getting work done round there is that mum can't be bothered now with what she calls 'men' knocking about and making a mess of things. So although there's much needing 'done' round her house she keeps putting it off because of her reluctance to deal with tradespeople. This is a common reluctance of older folks so I believe. Hence the generator idea was just a way of charging her buggy 'transparently' as it were.
However, I do take your points about generators generally. Those ones you have sound complicated and very expensive to repair. Yet, all hassles aside, I was wondering if in the end we do decide on the generator route whether an ordinary petrol device would do or whether we'd have to get one of those rather pricey 'inverter' types just to run that charger. I say this because I've heard from a not terribly reliable source that ordinary gens might cause problems for sealed lead-acide type constant voltage chargers like the one we have for the cart. Something to do with the sine wave outputs not being pure enough....or summat. A bit like inverters maybe...modified as opposed to pure sine wave? I dunno ;-)

Absolutely. I don't fancy that either. But with mum's useage the cart charges up from the mains in about three hours. We wouldn't have to leave it on all night or anything.
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"> >> Thanks for your help Tim and I hear what you're saying about getting

and
if this is a simple automotive or marine type charger it is little more then a transformer and diodes. there will be a couple breakers in it to protect from shorts and overheat. there might be a sensor to detect full charge and switch to trickle charge.
the smallest and least cost unit you can find will probably be sufficient.
here is on that is not so small, and probably not so cheap but it will run on several types of fuel http://www.gohonda.com/Multi-fuel/50cycle/lm50z.html
a good plan might be to call a local generator repair shop to see which ones they can get parts for. they might even have something used/refurbed for sale.
I say this because I've heard from a not terribly

set
ill have to take your word for it :) check the A-H (ampere-hour) rating of the batteries. if they are 100 A-H it would take at least 100 A-H / 8 amps = 12.5 hr to charge if fully depleted.
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What about buying an inverter for one of your vehicles? A small one is under $100 U.S. Maybe not practical with the high price of fuel there. Any chance solar or wind power would work?
Dean
-
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On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 21:07:16 -0600, Dean Hoffman

I'm not sure about an inverter Dean. Over here decent ones for that input are quite expensive. As for wind or solar power....? Again the cost and the installation would tend to rule those out.
Strictly speaking this cart thing should be kept in the house, which it currently is. However, my mother says it looks unsightly and is thus keen to have it removed to the garage.
Many thanks for your advice.
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wrote:

Karen,
The cable size for a 20amp load buried in the the crond is 10mm sq. This is not that big and may be worth coonsidering rather than the genny option.
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