On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 10:37:57 -0500, "hob" Gave us:
You're an idiot. A coaxial cable is one where the center conductor is surrounded by the return conductor and that return conductor is in a coaxial configuration with respect to said center conductor. PERIOD.
The signal on the cable make no difference for defining the physical medium that the cable is.
On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 08:53:38 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) Gave us:
And we won't even mention systems which use CML! HA!
No, as a matter of fact he does not!
Either that, or we are being trolled by somebody that actually does have one heck of an imagination!
Huh? Last one that I aimed was 30' in diameter...
Real behemoths require auto tracking anyway.
Regardless, your question is off base anyway. The reason for smaller dishes is because C band is a longer wavelength than Ku band! :-)
This guy is actually saying that the antenna delivers a *binary* digital signal to the input stage of his receiver!
I really don't know if he is just trolling, or can actually be that misguided. But it appears that just as much as you like to cuss at people, regardless of how stupid that is, he likes to disagree regardless of how stupid it is, just to see people react.
On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 11:58:47 -0500, "hob" Gave us:
The signal applied to the thing does NOT matter!
A COAX is a COAX is a COAX!
It matters not what signal is being carried on them.
And yes, I do know as I deal with hundreds of them a day on semi-rigid coax into SMA connectors, at 2.5 to 10Ghz and there are NO breaks in the system!
A Circumferentially shielded wire. Period!
Audio patch cables with RCA fittings on the ends are nearly ALL made with a thin COAX cable! PERIOD.
How can you be so thick skulled? So obtuse!
On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 20:36:27 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) Gave us:
I was referring to consumer, read only dishes. You know, the 12 and
18 inch jobs that get 500 channels of MPEG2 encoded streams at around 12 per transponder per orientation.Way smaller dish, yet perfect video signal. Perfect example, I'd say. The old, analog jobs would spray snow across the screen whenever the breeze kicked up, or a cow flatulated.
Off course. Check out the RAA (Race Across America)
Also, as much power wasn't needed, and the bird was easier to "hit". One could be a bit off and still get the entire datagram. All points indicating that what you have been saying is correct.
It is a modulated carrier. Always has been AFAIR.
I have more than a few reasons. I think Usenet needs a good Drill Sgt. Not saying that I am one, just saying that some of these folks need a thwack upside da haed! (intentionally misspelled)
If you do not even know what the Lagrange and Laplace transforms are, why the hell are you even trying to talk about digital amplifiers in electrical engineering? You need those before you even GET to z-transforms for digital work.
FYEAK - a pulse on a scope has a definite time duration, while a pulse in the transforms has no time duration - the shape in transforms which most closely conforms to the pulse seen on a scope is the unit function. (Just which one is being considered needs to be addressed when the vernacualr can cause the wrong one to be considered)
And if you didn't have that grasp of the fundamentals of transforms, I can see why you are so lost in a conversation about digital amplifiers.
And FWIW, ALL digital signals are made of discrete pulses - known sometimes as bits (when in trains like in IFF or when in bytes or words in computers), nodes, digits, pluses, and the like. Your BS about "levels of digital" is simple BS - an AM riding on a digit is AM discrimination, not digital amplification.
nuff on this subject - once you get a couple basic sophomore college courses in electrical engineering, ring back and we can chat.
amplifiers -all
No response after the above because I didn't even read your responses
an input signal that relies on a series of input pulses to carry information is digital - the device reading and repeating of that information is an amplifier. There is no analog involved in reading and repeating digits .
what response needed? I see that you agree with what I said earlier.
See other post on insertion loss.
wrong
wrong
Coaxial cable (coax):
A cable consisting of a center conductor surrounded by an insulating material and a concentric outer conductor. (188) Note: Coaxial cable is used primarily for wideband, video, or rf applications.
From Federal Standard 1037C, Telecommunications: Glossary of Telecommunication Terms. Note that the definition lacks any reference to the circuit a cable is used in, or any parameters of that use. Coax is defined by the physical construction of the cable, and *nothing* else.
As I noted correctly, the inner conductor and the outer conductors at both ends of a length of coax can all be grounded at a single point, it is *still* defined as a coaxial cable.
Your suggestions otherwise, and particularly concerning the requirement that it be used as a transmission line to be properly called "coax", is hilarious, but very indicative of virtually everything you've been saying in this thread: abject stupidity.
get an engineering definition -
apparently regarding coax, we will have to agree to disagree
amplifiers -all
Yeah, yeah, yeah - Quadrature - 1/4-sine phase shifting.
Yes, I have some knowledge of noise immunity - in additon to the cable grounding for the radar portions of the BMEWS site, I also was an ECCM tech in the marines (14 AJ, 5 MTI, 6 video modes) and the site tech for BMEWS for ITT. And on cryo amps, which is about as low noise as it gets.
background.
So just when are you going to answer that question?
...
How to you account for the above?
No response?
*You* are the one who wrote "not the LeGrange/LePlace pulse", thus excluding those transforms. Why didn't you also mention Fourier, and we might as well comment on Maxwell and Newton too.But the point is that what *I* questioned was what *you said* it was, not what you said it wasn't:
"That's a wonderful set of words. Do you know what you said? Was it supposed to means something specific? I particularly liked the "rather unit function" group! But "a sinusoid on its leading edge" ain't bad either.
I've got a program that generates nonsense phrases from real words somewhere, but it doesn't do that good."
It seems the only way you can defend what you've written is to edit what I said, and talk about what you didn't say. But, alas, everyone can look at the Google archives and see what was actually posted.
So tell us again about how the input to the tuner is a digital amplifier! Tell us more about how digital systems all use rise time to differentiate between symbol values.
Your point?
Like, for example, the analog input to a tuner?
All digital signals are made of a finite set of discrete *symbols*.
Bits are *binary* information units. Binary is only one particular type of digital signal. Not all digital symbols are binary in value. For example, a single symbol might have a set of values that range from 0 to 255. If converted to a binary digital system, that would require 8 symbols to hold the same data.
Do *not* confuse "bits" with defining "digital". There are many many digital systems that do not use bits to carry information.
What is "an AM riding on a digit"???
Note that "levels of digital" is hardly BS. For example, take PCM code, which has 256 values per symbol, not 2 as with a bit. Or try ISDN which is commonly encoded as 2B1Q (Two Binary One Quaternary), where each pulse has 4 possible values, not 2.
No response?
No response?
No response?
Well, which is it that we are going to talk about, digital amplifiers or the input stage to a tuner?
I don't blame you for not wanting to read and not wanting to attempt a response. You've got a pretty good sized hole dug with this troll effort of yours, and standing your ground in any one place just won't get it.
The input to a tuner is not digital. It is analog. The signals are analog. The *information* carried is digital, but there are no digital signals until the analog modulation is demodulated.
Your claims about the input signals to a tuner are ridiculous, because you don't recognize where you are working with digital and where you are working with analog.
And to add to that, you don't seem to realize that "digital" is not always "binary". A single pulse is not necessarily either 0 or 1. And a 1 is not necessarily a pulse...
I said you were wrong, and did not agree with you at all. You said RCA cables are not coaxial, and that insertion loss is not the total loss. Are you now retracting what you said?
Where you said the opposite? You were wrong.
Okay, lets word that differently... your dog can tie *you* up with it, and it will still be coax cable.
That's why it is described as "coax cable" when sold by the roll. Nobody has a list of proper uses which makes it coax as opposed to whatever you think it might be otherwise.
coaxial cable (coax): A cable consisting of a center conductor surrounded by an insulating material and a concentric outer conductor.
No mention of signals, usage, or the color of your dog.
Well why don't *you* post one? I already have, but here it is again:
coaxial cable (coax): A cable consisting of a center conductor surrounded by an insulating material and a concentric outer conductor.
--
Clueless.
A site tech for BMEWS. I bet they were scared to let you use a mop on the floor, never mind touch equipment!
Tell me more about BMEWS. I don't believe you.
never - it doesn't warrant a response - if you claim the repeater in a T1 line can carry a 1 tera signal and track its rise time, then your question speaks for itself
amplifiers -all
As hilariously ignorant as the Mil Std definition.
"3.1 Insertion loss. At a given frequency, the insertion loss of a feed through suppression capacitor or a filter connected into a given transmission system is defined as the ratio of voltages appearing across the line immediately beyond the point of insertion, before and after insertion.
BEFORE AND AFTER
I see my referenced article's suggested method for measuring insertion loss - it is incorrect and does not comply with Mil Std 220b (- see in particular section 5.2.2.1 for multi-port devices.) nor the ATIS defintion.
You can take the MIL Std as being accurate.
not if the impedance of the line and the input port of the device is not matched.
that is incorrect. input I M P E D A N C E
Whether that signal
only to the uninitiated
and if the line and device input impedance are different, is the impedance matched?
see Mil Std 220b.
OK - I am following - and if no power goes through the resistor because of the balance, then none is lost internally.
Point taken. And the late professor of my circuits course at the U, and a half dozen other sources, just rolled over in their graves - I think.
what background in BMEWS do you have that would be useful in verifying my statements?
Want the STALO frequencies?
MIP feed info?
14 ft Klystrons?moon gates?
242?parametric hybrids?
I worked on the synchronizer - if you know anything about BMEWS, that will tell you enough.
-- PE, EE and ME
I'm claiming *exactly* the opposite. You are the one who says it is in some way sensitive to rise time.
But it is also clear that you have no perception of what that means, and cannot support your claim with anything that makes an ounce of sense.
The *facts* are that *nothing* in a T1 carrier system is sensitive to rise time relative to encoding or decoding digital information.
In fact the only part that is sensitive to rise time is the
*analog* phase locked loop used for clock recovery!It is a very nice demonstration of how incorrect your statements about rise time are and digital signals are.
No response? You don't seem to understand much about this topic, as you cannot explain either your own statements or the most obvious rebutals.
Still no response. Not just to that, but to *anything*!
to answer each of your questions regarding rise time all at once -
(Here, "amplifier" means any reproducing circuitry which takes in a signal and sends out a signal)
1) ALL amplifiers have an input impedance which is primarily determined by the physical components at that input. 2) The impedance (reactance portion) created by those components depends on the frequency. 3) Remember that the rise time is defined as the slope of the wave between 10% to 90% of its peak value 4) Look at sine waves and in particular the slope ( between 10% and 90% of the wave peak) for first 90 degrees of any sine wave. It is identical to the rise time of a pulse ("square wave") used in "digital" circuitry.So the amplifier sees the first 90 degrees of a sine wave or it sees the rise time of a digital pulse, and in that time period, the amplifier sees the same slope
5) - and since the impedance (reactance component) of the amplifier depends on the frequency (slope), the amplifier creates an impedance in that 90 degree period, based on that input. 6) A very short rise time creates a different impedance than a long rise time (see reactance equations). 7) All amplifiers have a threshold at which they will recognize a signal - either designed in so as to clip noise or from the inherent characteristics of circuits 8) A matched impedance has more signal passed than an unmatched impedance. The greater the mismatch, the less the signal passed. A fast rise time (high frequency sine rise) has a different impedance than one with a lower rise time, and the signal passed into the device varies with rise time.If the slope (rise time) creates an impedance that creates a mismatch that reduces the pulse below the threshold of recognition, that rise time pulse is not seen by the portion of the circuit responsible for reproducing the pulse.
Thus the signal must be within a range of rise time values for the input to see the signal.
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