Shop Light

in article ONRUc.2104$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net, Roger Rusch at snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net wrote on 8/18/04 4:40 PM:

There is a good chance that the problem is in your starters. With various improvements in vacuum tube processing technology and reduction of materials with residual radioactivity, starters do not turn on easily in a really dark room. Try taking a flashlight with you to shine on the starters. The light will provide the initial electrtons need to start the glow. That is why starters now come with holes in their cases. It allows them to work by letting light in.

Bill

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Why not ditch the starters and get non starter ballasts. I have not seen starters in fluorescent fixtures in years. Just follow the diagram on the new ballasts

From my experience "shoplights" are s*it. I have even tried the upgraded ($15-20) models and they still are not reliable.

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 00:43:59 GMT, Repeating Rifle put forth the notion that...

Fluorescent starters have (had) radioactive material in them? I had no idea...

You're pulling our leg? A light that won't start in the dark? Maybe you can only shut the light off in the dark, too?

I've had good luck with such cheap shop lights, but others have reported they don't work well. You probably have some bad starters. I'd be inclined to replace them or the whole assembly (if that's cheaper).

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Thanks for your reply, The starter, cap and neon bulb, is soldered in place. Intentionally non-replaceable. The fixtures are not 'permanently installed on the garage ceiling. They are hung by chains and plugged into an outlet. This way the building code regarding lights and fixtures is bypassed. Yes, it seems the only alternative is a non-starter ballast. I have some of these in the kitchen and the flor. tubes last forever, and they always start, modern tech at it's best. thanks, roger.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Peterson" Newsgroups: alt.engineering.electrical Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 8:19 AM Subject: Re: Shop Light

Oh, you can replace it you want. You just buy a "can" starter and take it apart. The only important component is the gas tube with built in thermally activated switch (what you call the neon bulb). The cap is just there to reduce RF intererence. It's about the same amount of trouble as replacing a switch that is soldered in.

(I did this when the "started" of my "BUG ZAPPER" failed.)

in article ILXUc.4911$ snipped-for-privacy@news1.mts.net, operator jay at snipped-for-privacy@none.com wrote on 8/18/04 11:22 PM:

You do understand the situation now! I had difficulty believing this at first. Note, however, that starters in the hardware stores do have holes in the aluminum protective case. That did not use to be the case. I finally cpmvinced myself by taking a flashlight into a dark room to start the starters.

A friend of mine has found some NE-2 type neon glow tubes that do not start easily without illumination or radioactive assistance. Of course, you can overvolt such glow tubes to start them with field emission.

Bill

In addition to what was posted earlier, humidity may be a part of the problem.

Fluorescant lights sometimes have a hard time starting when it is cold, when it is humid or when the metal fixture body is not grounded. My garage lights won't start on real humid days without an assist. (Most of the time when they are hard to start I can start them by rubbing the tubes with my hand while flicking the switch. I heat the bulbs with a hair dryer if it is real bad - I got the hair dryer for 50 cents at a tag sale and keep it in the garage for just that purpose. Heating ionizes the gas in the tubes making it more conductive, thus easier to start.)

You do seem to have all sorts of strange problems with fluorescent tubes in the US which we never have in the UK. About the only one which has any equivalent in the UK is that 8' tubes with glowswitch starters can take several seconds of extra flashing to come on in a cold garage or the like.

in article cg5arl$t2k$ snipped-for-privacy@new-usenet.uk.sun.com, Andrew Gabriel at snipped-for-privacy@cucumber.demon.co.uk wrote on 8/20/04 10:02 AM:

We probab;y have much more restrictive policies with regard to having a bit of thorium or the like in the starters.

Bill

Nope. Baldwin organs from the mid '60s had a neon-based percussion section. When the percussion didn't work properly, the first thing to check was the row of Type 47 incandescent bulbs that provided "bias". Old timers joked that the neons were scared of the dark.

Years ago I say a "design" for a DIY cheap "radiation" detector.

Basically, is was a run of the mill relaxation oscillator using a resistor, and capacitor and a neon lamp all connected to a DC source (120 volts with a diode). Simple circuit: which the cap got charged to the firing voltage, the neon lamp would "fire" and discharge the capacitor to the "sustain" level.

The "thick" was to you TWO neon lamps in parallel. One was the "reference" lamp and the other was the "snoop" lamp. These were to be closed matched in terms of firing voltage. The "reference" lamp selected to be the lamp with the SLIGHTLY lower firing voltage. In normal operation the reference lamp would flash and the "snoop" lamp would remain dark.

BUT it the "snoop" lamp were exposed to radiation or anything that lowers the firing voltage, the "snoop" lamp would flash and the "reference" lamp would be dark.

I made this circuit up when I was a kid but I wasn't able to get two lamps closely match enough to see the effect of the extra radiation on the lamps.

Going back to the original topic: Starters should work in the dark. If they don't the "tube" has worn itself out (usually caused by excessive wear when the lamp doesn't fire.)

Have some fun with your friends. Flip the switch and then 'light' the fluorescent starter with a match. ;-)