Unfused 13A plugtop "kettle" lead (UK)

Interesting read. In the US, we have multiple outlets on one circuit (as a rule, but there are exceptions for dedicated loads). The circuit protection in the box is usually 15A or 20A. All wiring and outlets on a circuit must be rated for the same current as the circuit protection (with one exception, several 15A receptacles can be on a 20A feeder). Load diversity allows us to plug a variety of 15A cords into multiple receptacles on one 15A circuit breaker. One case where diversity doesn't work so well is kitchen counters, so there is a requirement for kitchens to have at least two seperate circuits for the countertop appliances (coffee maker, microwave, what-have-you).

Almost none of the plugs for appliances are fused here in the states. Instead, all the plugs and cords are rated for 15A. I believe it's felt that even 15A cords/plugs can handle 20A for a short time during a fault condition should the appliance fail. With your larger 30A circuits, each appliance cord would need to be rated for 30A without your individual fused-plugs.

The one place I've routinely seen fused plugs here in the states is Christmas decorations. Strings of lights are often offered with a plug at one end and molded receptacle at the other so multiple strings can be 'daisy chained' together. But the wire size used is not rated for 15A, so a smaller fuse (

Why is a foreigner posting here about their inferior electrical system?

I thought he did a good job of describing a different system which like the UK system probably has some good points and some bad.

Why are you so pompous.

This is an international discussion and everybody is entitled to their views. And he never disparaged the UK system .

Because some limey cross-posted to alt.engineering.electrical :-). When someone cross-posts to other groups, it is to a wider (hopefully still related) audience. Ask the person that cross-posted why they included such a wide audience. Maybe they *wanted* information on various systems/options.

As far as 'inferior', I don't know about that. We don't need fused plugs because we're smart enought to have all the equipment downstream of the circuit breaker built for the rating of the circuit breaker. Whereas the UK system seems to rely on additional protective devices for small equipment not rated for the full circuit current.

Yes, our system is a lower voltage and thus draws more current for a given load. But our circuits are wired in a 'star' sort of topology instead of a 'ring' bus, so which really uses more copper? Our system makes two different voltage levels available.

daestrom

This reminds me of something that was told me by a "Square D" representative. I have no assurance as to its veracity. Square D decided, sometime in the 60's to expand to the UK. Their eqipment did not sell well. Finally they dragged out some old 1930 designs (the kind with cast iron panel boxes with 47 bolts to hold the cover on) and sales skyrocketed.

In all truth, there are advantages and disadvantages to both the UK and the North American approaches. Which is better is a moot point. What is known for sure is that neither is going to adapt the other's approach. I do note that, in terms of population served, the UK system is actually dominant- one area where they outsold the US. I will not go into possible non-technical reasons for this.

This is a good point. Each country made a decision in the late 19th and early-to-mid 20th Century as to what type of electrical system they would have and, for better or worse, we are each stuck with what we have as a result of those decisions. Only minor and gradual changes are permitted by code changes every few years, certainly nothing that would have a drastic impact on electrical utilization.

My own take on it has to do with the relative wealth of the countries involved and their access to inexpensive natural resources.

The US, in this case, has historically had the wealth and the philosophy to spend the extra money on more wires, more copper, and if necessary, a transformer for every house or a small cluster of houses.

This philosophy also allowed for increasing electrical usage throughout the twentieth century. There was more of a tendency to junk the obsolete 30 A fuse box services and eventually upgrade to 100 A , 200A and higher services. This is now a standard practice. There is a more modern grade of service in the US because of the urban sprawl in every city filled with new construction.

In Europe, perhaps from decades of being bankrupted from World Wars, occupations (in some countries), and long periods of economic stagnation elected to chose a system that appeared to be more economical for the times.

The example I am familiar with would be a typical small town in France. This would be one transformer serving the whole village at

Indeed, in France, you are not allowed to use too much power (that Disjoncter again!) unless you pay the higher, more penalizing tariff.

Of course, France is a modern technologically advanced country, as are most of the countries of Europe. Still, I think there are some basic, but significant differences between the US and Euro electrical systems in terms of capacity, convenience, and safety.

Beachcomber

I also would tend to cut off the dangerous plug and throw it away. It is fairly easy to strip the insulation off the wire and jam it in the socket with a couple of matchsticks.

Interesting. I would have thought that 15A on a 120V supply would be a tad limiting. A room heater could easily take 1000W, and my vacuum cleaner is rated at 1300W. Using both on the same 15A circuit would therefore cause it to trip.

Ummmm ... totally incorrect. The rating applies to the insulation of the wire.

In the Usa circuits are radial and you are likely to have a breaker for each room

Their electrical system into most homes is twin phase to nuetral so large load machines will be 220 volt (2 lives )

The higher power portable appliances found through much of the world are missing from the US market, due to the limited power available at standard outlets being only half that of most 230-240V countries. Special 240V sockets are provided for a few things like stoves, but most high power appliances commonly found elsewhere are either not shipped to US markets, or US-variant low power versions are used instead.

OTOH, a 13A plug can look a bit silly on something that draws a couple of watts and is rather smaller than the plug...

Look around the typical drawing room. How many devices actually need more than 25W, let alone more than 2500W? What would the walls look like if there were enough 13A sockets for everything? Which just means that multiway extension leads are found everywhere and often plugged lead into lead into lead.

Not to mention the ease with which a 3A fuse can be incorrectly replaced with a 13A one.

A 13A standard socket, and nothing else, might have been a good idea at the time that most houses had a wireless and wind-up His Master's Voice. But it really doesn't seem to be meeting the needs of a modern house, with dozens of gadgets in most rooms.

Why is it that UK wall sockets generally have switches (see images at ) and US sockets don't?

This is not a problem. All appliances in the EU have to remain safe when operating with protection up to 16A nowadays, so you can stick a 13A fuse in every plug if you wish. (The exceptions are electrical items which predate us joining the Common Market, and extension cords which are an anomoly anyway.)

Actually, we had 3 or 4 different socket sizes simultaneously in use at that time, depending on the power consumption of the appliance. The scheme was a right royal pain in the backside as each appliance had a 1 in 3 chance of having the right plug on it. That's why it isn't used any more. However, it is still perfectly permissable to wire a house using that scheme if you really want to.

Would you rather go back to the old days of 2, 5 and 15 amp sockets, each with 2 and 3 pin variants (2 pin for the modern double insulated appliances)? (I've never known why the pin spacing of the 2 pin forms differed from the 3 pin ones.)

I possibly could - I have a fair collection of 2, 5 and 15A "as new" plugs and sockets that came from a retired electrician's stock.

But I have never seen such an installation. All I remember as a kid is a

Was it one radial cable from fuse board to each socket, with different cable sizes and fuses depending on the socket size? If so, it doesn't sound the ideal way to put thirty sockets in the kitchen..or the same number in the drawing room.

But really I was thinking of a two part 13A plug for low wattage units. As an assembly it would fit into a standard 13A socket. But one part, fixed to the lead, could be pulled out and used with a special small-format socket. A typical "double 13A" socket would consist of one standard 13A socket and, say, 4 small-format ones..Those 4 could be fused at the socket, rather than in the plugs. A 13A to 4 small-format socket adapter could be plugged into the other 13A socket, to give 8 sockets, on the wall, if needed.

Nope, as written elsewhere, I would rather go forward to a two-part 13A plug, with the "inner" able to be used as a plug on new, small-format, sockets. So a new 1x13A + 4x3A wall socket could be used to replace the standard 2 x 13A socket - giving 5 sockets instead of 2. A simple adapter in the 13A socket could give a total of 8x3A sockets, on the wall.

Brits like to turn off the sockets to stop the electricity leaking out. Merkins don't mind how much leaks out as they can always raid another country for some more? Do I win five pounds?

As usual, another good point. Double insulated devices also mean that a two prong plug would be adequate for many things.

ISTM that there is a good case to be made for a large amount of small,

I have fitted a double row of 13A sockets on each of 3 walls to take all the gadgets - I have 30 sockets in my main living area (6 off a UPS) and now have only 2 spare ones! I doubt that many of them are supplying anywhere near half an amp - the main supply to the lot is protected with a 10A breaker.

The most power-hungry device is the 1300W vacuum cleaner - so naturally I do my bit for the environment and use it as little as possible.