Re: IBM's Super Battery

On Sat, 13 Jun 2009 14:17:26 -0700, Uncle Al wrote:
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It's Li-air, UA. Wouldn't that theoretically be be up around 9.5 or so?

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Nice list, you might add TNT at 9.5, Then there is air pressure storage not sure where it fits(do you count the pressure vessel as part of the mass?), and gravity storage. (I'm thinking of pumped water reservoirs. ) down at 0.5.
George H.

On Sat, 13 Jun 2009 19:08:14 -0700, George Herold wrote:
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I think TNT would be lower than air breathers, because it has to bring its own oxygen to the party. Maybe a 5.5?
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On Sat, 13 Jun 2009 19:08:14 -0700, George Herold wrote:
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TNT's energy density of 4.2MJ/kg is less than a tenth of that of petrol, diesel or kerosene (all around 45MJ/kg).

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Yes, TNT's claim to fame is it's rapid explosive reaction not it's energy density. Chemical explosives are NOT particularly energy dense compared to common fuels. People confuse energy density with the ability to detonate into volumes of gas very rapidly; i,e, explode. They aren't the same thing.

Bob Eld wrote:
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The latter being known as brisance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisance

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Well, not everybody does. Since that's why the people who actually understand the issues work on Self-Replicating Machines, rather than with Quantum-Chemistry idiots from GM
And work on GPS, Digital Terrain Mapping, SGML, XML, Electronic Books, All-In-One Printers, USB, Distributed Processing Software, Holograms, Atomic Clock Wristwatches, Light Sticks, Compact Flourescent Lighting, Pv Cell Energy, Flat Screen Software Debuggers, Fiber Optics Data Lines, PGP, Home Broadband, On-Line Banking, On-Line Publishing, On-Line Shopping, Blue Ray, HDTV, Thermo-Electric Cooling, Microwave Cooling, UAVs, AAVs, Cruise Missiles, Drones, Phalanx, Biodiesel, and Self-Assembling Robots,rather than with A.I. Cranks from IBM and AT&T.

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Thanks for the correction, no wonder gas is so good at getting us around.
George H.

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What makes you think this is a physical impossibility ? The 5kWh/kg is real (at least theoretical) for the Lithium-air electrochemical reaction.
Rob
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He may some conflict of interest.
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The problem with a large mature company isn't that it'll make wild claims but that it won't make any claims at all. Even so it was interesting that they sought out MIT to check their work and bolster their case.
Bret Cahill

Wasn't it IBM that came up with carbon nanorods that are supposed to revolutionize battery capacity? As anodes they were supposed to multiply the capacity of batteries by 10x.
What was the enhancement that already multiplied the capacity of NIMH batteries by 10x?

If there are too many false announcements that delay something this might work, it's not a good thing.
Bret Cahill
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I think you refer to the Stanford nanowire anode development by Yi Cui, professor at Stanford. http://news.stanford.edu/news/2008/january9/nanowire-010908.html
That development applies (and refers) to traditional technology (lithium ion and such), not the Lithium-air battery proposed here. still stands and as far as I know they are exploring commercialization.
One recurring issue with these nano technology is upscaling (and keeping production cost low). From another report : "The downside is that the nanowire growth process that Cui uses, which feeds gaseous silicon to a liquid gold catalyst to make the solid electrode, is a high-temperature (600 to 900 °C) process that could be costly to scale up. Cui believes that scale-up of the vapor-liquid-solid process is nevertheless feasible, but he acknowledges that he is also "exploring another approach." http://www.technologyreview.com/read_article.aspx?ch=specialsections&sc ºtteries&id 000
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Don't know this one. In general, there are many research and development projects ongoing to find a low-cost, high-capacity battery suitable for the expected PHEV market. You will see all kind of new developments, one claiming even bolder improvements that the next. Which one of these alternatives will make it to commercialization is unclear at this point. Just let research and development and production engineering do it's thing. But one thing is sure : there will be improvements in both energy capacity, power density and cost reduction.
Rob

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Well, since that's also why the people who actually understand engineering, rather than internal ibm gibberish work on C++, Distributed Processing Software, Pv Cell Energy, All-In-One Printers, Digital Fiber Optics Signalling, Multiplexing, Corner Turning, USB, Mini Hard Disks, Electronic Books, Cell Phones, GPS, Digital Terrain Mapping, Atomic Clock Wristwatches, Holographics, Holograms, Post GM Sockets, Self-Replicating Machines, Self-Assembling Robots, UAVs, AAVs, Drones, Cruise Missles, Phalanx, Blue Ray, Flat Screen Debuggers, HDTV, XML, On-line Banking, On-Line Shopping, On-Line Publishing, Compact Flourescent Lighting, Light Sticks, Solar Energy, Biodiesel, Gas Turbine Engines, and Hybrid Electric Trucks and Cars, it's also an issue that only Quantum Mechanics and Ford idiots worry about anyway.
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http://news.stanford.edu/news/2008/january9/nanowire-010908.html
Too bad if they can't combine them.
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http://www.technologyreview.com/read_article.aspx?ch=specialsections&sc=batteries&id=20000
High temp and lots of GOLD? Yowch.
Does the gold end up being consumed or incorporated into the resultant product?
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The consumer NiMH rechargeable AA's ON STORE SHELVES have gone through two major changes in the last few years. 1. Eliminated the ""memory"" problem 2. 10x capacity
Those are big changes but I haven't seen any explanation of how they did it.

On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:59:18 -0700, Greegor wrote:
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http://www.technologyreview.com/read_article.aspx?ch=specialsections&sc ºtteries&id 000
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It says "gold catalyst", which means that it remains unchanged by the reaction.

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ocsýmòròn--the catalýst latches on a reagend, rechanges, then dechanges.