Using a canister vacuum to move a large load of dirt.

Exactly.. by opening the bottom of the vacuum, it will draw all of it's air through the filter from the now open bottom... that can is made of stiff materials for a purpose..

So you will not wreck your vacuum fan, because it will be moving only air through it's fan blades...

There are ways to do this, but as other's have said, unless you have a good degree of engineering skills, _and a well stocked junkyard to play in_, it would be cheaper to hire the local lads, or do it yourself...

I wonder if you are close enough to a farming area to borrow (like they would let you... =) some grain transport belts to ease the moving of the dirt past your house?...

Al...

Reply to
Alan Adrian
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This may be a dumb question, but is it totally impossible to back the dump truck delivering this dirt past the side of your house into the back yard?

I don't know what your house and yard are like, so this may be out of the question, but unless it's totally impossible I would seriously consider it.

Reply to
Olin Perry Norton

I have used air convayors on bottle caps...

First of, the dirt can't go through the fan... so you have to blow it down the line, and use a venturi pipe to pick up the dirt. ( this is like the way a spray gun gets its paint.. ) Can you get your vacume to blow ?

Second, very smooth pipes are needed to prevent cloging. Have rods to hand to clear blockages *when* they happen ( not if :-( )

Third, to move light weight caps I had to use a 1.5 Hp blower, your vacume is probably about 1/3 Hp max. I would gess to work your pipe a 7.5 Hp blower might be a good starting point :-)

Reply to
Jonathan Barnes

Norm hired a man to come in with a giant truck with a conveyor-belt like thing on it to place gravel in a hard to get to place. It rocked (no pun intended). Maybe there's a place with one of those near you that you can hire...

Or maybe it won't work with dirt...

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-Mike

Reply to
hubcap

Several reasons. Primarily, vacuums are made to suck, not blow - IF you got the dirt into it, it probably wouldn't get sent back out. Your central canister system, for one, has a filter between the intake out outlet; removing that would expose the motor/fan assembly to the dirt.

Something like a Shop-Vac has the outlet and intake both in the top, so once the dirt has been sucked into the canister/tank, it would have to be lifted up again into the outlet.

And all that assumes that you can suck up the dirt in a steady stream without anything clogging, or coming across rocks and clumps that are just too big and heavy...

Hire a couple neighborhood teens to do the wheelbarrow work for you. Even at $10/hr it shouldn't cost you more than $100 in the end. Better yet, get three - they can take turns, one shovelling, the other two rolling, and should have it done it no time.

Reply to
Matt Ion

Does the 3' wall mean that you are going to add 3' of depth to say a

25x25 (approx) area?

What kind of dirt?

How do you expect to grade the yard?

People use Bobcats and other machines because it allows you to compact the soil as you work. You might be able to do what you are saying with light soil and a reasonably powerful dust collector blower---1000cfm. But you would end up with a lot of air mixed in with the soil as it is deposited. Rain will then make a mess of it.

My experience is that it would take 2 days (8hr) with a Bobcat to do a good job.

-tg

Reply to
tgdenning

......find the nearest bobcat contractor...this will help reduce "bedding charges"( a fee that all equipment operators charge to get their bobcat to your site) typically $70.00. Approx. 70.00 per hour for bobcat and operator.....should take 2 hours to move and place the material. Allow for a

2% slope away from your building. I can't see why you could'nt have the pile moved and placed for @ 200.00. If you rent the equipment , you must allow for their delivery AND pick fees which is costly. Further, your time learning how to operate the bobcat , notwithstanding potential accidents, can slow the project down and back blading to achieve proper grade can be time consuming and requires some experience to "feather " the material. PS......BC building code requires that the dirt be minimum 6" below your siding to prevent bugs and mice from entering your structure......not always achievable, but worthy of note. >
Reply to
Sanity

Flow rate is not the only factor you need to consider. Your home A/C may have an adequate flow rate, but it doesn't develope NEAR enough pressure (aka head gain) to move that much dirt. You could put the tube right next to a pile of dirt, and it won't suck it up (just the air surrounding it). And if you put the dirt directly in the pipe, it'd just stop the airflow, period.

You'd need at least a couple PSI of pressure, and your home A/C's head gain is measured in INCHES of WATER, which is a fraction of a PSI. Most propeller-based pumps can't develope more than a few inches of water, and are not adequate.

Also, assuming you actually got dirt in your fan, you'd probably break it.

If you're that concerned with money, go with a large WB. Besides, it's good exersize. If it takes you 2 days to move it, then it'd be worth it assuming you make less than 200$ a day (73k/year, after taxes).

Dave

Reply to
dave.harper

1) Deliver it in back. 2) Mexican day laborers/neighborhood kids. 3) Rent a backhoe, tractor, etc. 4) Rig a conveyer or bucket belt.
1) Deliver it in back. 2) Mexican day laborers/neighborhood kids. 3) Rig a conveyer or bucket belt.

Tribocharging, amongst other sillinesses like abrasion.

KISS:

Keep It Simple, Stupid

Really. That is the secret to success of any production line.

Reply to
Uncle Al

Yes it is a dumb idea.

Reply to
Mike

Thank you (and lots of others) for the food-for-thought on grading, dirt compacting, etc.

As for compacting: If I end up going the wheelbarrow route, I thought I'd provide a big plywood sheet and chairs for my wife and mother-in-law to sit on while they critique my earthmoving skills. Then I could move the board and chairs around periodically to help tamp down the dirt. Har har.

We have a lot that is approximately 45 feet wide and 106 feet deep. The back yard has 6-foot wood fencing around it that can be taken down in sections. The side yards are ~4 feet wide, so only wheelbarrows can work getting through the side gate. There is a public greenbelt running beside our property, with a paved walkway running from the street almost to the end of our back fence. The developer used this very walkway to run a Bobcat in and out of our yard and the neighbors' yards when they were laying the (inadequate) original topsoil and creating the somewhat drastic slope down from the center of our yard to our back (North) and East lot lines.

The slope runs about four vertical feet from center of back yard to the East fence, covering roughly 18 feet (making it a 22% grade?) The slope from center to North fence is probably half that steep. A three foot retaining wall along the Northeast corner (a 44x50 foot L-shape), then filling with the ~2000 cubic feet of dirt would still leave a gentler grade of approximately 10%. It's really just the Northeast corner and half-way back up the East property line that we want to fill a bit. No new dirt will come near our house, so the mice and bugs will have to find another entrance. Perhaps they should consider using the sliding screen door my daughter leaves open all the time.

We're still trying to figure out whether to use stacking concrete bricks or treated wood/railroad ties for the wall, and how to integrate the wall with the fenceposts. Our neighbors cut their hedging planks to fit between fence posts and nailed them inline with the fence line. I don't like the idea that the wood, treated or not, will degrade in the next 10-15 years. I guess stacking bricks, although longer-lived, will have some problems too, in addition to cost, i.e. breaking up the wall between fence posts, trying to find a way to sink the fence posts through the bricks, or run the wall inside or outside of the fence?

I suspect we can get away with running a Bobcat down the public walkway to get to our yard, but if I were to inquire, I have a feeling the city would require permits, grading plan, etc. Backing a dump truck down that walkway would no doubt draw some disapproval from neighbors and the city. Wheelbarrows down the walk would be no problem, and would avoid trenching up our (already in sad shape) grass.

Nat

Reply to
njolsson

I've pretty much given up the vacuum idea now, but...what if I replaced the canister bottom with a five foot tall plastic or tin cone, like a fireplace flue, with an opening at the top the size of the vacuum. Then I set the vacuum inside it and let it fill with dirt, pulling the vac and cone away to leave little dirt castles to be spread around the yard. The cone is pressed against the ground to make a seal of sorts. I think I still have the problem of overwhelming the poor vac motor sucking dirt.

Reply to
njolsson

Perhaps not as efficient, but renting the bobcat and doing it yourself gives the pleasure of driving the bobcat for the day--which is not to be under-rated as amusing one-time experiences go.

Reply to
Michael

If the dirt was dry enough not to get jammed in the system (which we can pretty well assume it won't be dry enough...) then this idea would work. You could make your cone pretty big. Getting a tight seal depends on the yard, maybe you could use some poly on the ground to seal against? I don't see why it would be harder on the vacume than just running it in the house for all those hours.

Filters will plug up though, jams will happen...

dunno how fast you'd be able to actually move the dirt, how soon you'd abrade the pipe so that jams would start to happen against the now rough insides very regularly....

Seems like a lot of work and expense... Unless you already own lots of pipe and the cone? to risk the possible adventure if it plugs up every couple minutes (seems about right to me)...

Al...

Reply to
Alan Adrian

snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote: [snip]

Wood will not last in contact with soil, treated or not. Railroad ties are placed upon gravel beds.

Synthetic wood (recycled plastic garbage) is surprisingly weak in tension. Concrete base with rebar sticking up. Cinderblocks threaded down the rebar and secured with mortar. Fill in the rebarred holes with more concrete. Top with aesthetic tile rounds or whatever. Use a level and stretch string when you build the wall. Pay special attention to corners - that is where the strength lays.

Reply to
Uncle Al

But the dirt sucked up by the vacuum hose does not exit from the outlet hole. Only the air does. The dirt falls into the canister. There is also a filter bag between the vacuum side of the blower and the canister to keep dirt out of the blower. If you remove the filter bag, the dirt will accumulate till it fills the canister and then it will clog the blower and motor. Some of the air passes through the motor to cool it. How long will a soil filled motor function? Not long.

Reply to
John Popelish

Think of how much you could save in gym fees by manually digging that dirt & throwing it into a "Polish dump truck" and wheeling it into the back yard!

Because I care,

| I am planning construction of a 3 foot retaining wall, and I plan to

Reply to
gapope

I seem to remember something about a golf ball and fifty feet of garden hose, but it wouldn't be appropriate to recite chapter and verse in this venue.

Likewise chrome bumper hitches.

Reply to
Bob Ward

You don''t see a wear factor because you are attempting to move tons of dirt rather than ounces of dust?

Reply to
Bob Ward

I don't

When I run a vacuum, I have it pressed against the floor... I'm drawing quite a bit of vacuum, converting work to heat, and moving some small bit of dust... with a relatively low airflow...

If he's got the filter on while moving his dirt the only difference is that the air flow will be higher because he's not drawing quite so hard a vacuum (depending on his pipe length) What the fan sees is more clean air moving past and out, slower rotation (because it's not flailing against low airflow due to the partially plugged intake).

I sort of think of it like this: Do you get more tired picking up a barrel of baseballs from the ground to the counter, or holding a bowling ball at arms length over the same time period without moving much?... You do way more work with the former... but holding that ball out there for 4 or 5 minutes is going to be tough...

Al...

Reply to
Alan Adrian

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