3 phases 6 wires

I have a Leland 6273 3 phase 240 V motor I am trying to figure out how to hook up.
It has 6 black wires coming out of the motor.
It also has 2 much smaller brown wires coming out that were just tied out of the way to the lifting ring. I suspect those were for a tach or possible a heat sensor.
It just has paper labels on the black wires, and they look like they were put on by somebody who tried to figure out the motor in the past. They do not match up with any of the three phase wiring numbers/ letters standards I've been able to find. I want to hook it to a VFD for testing. Since the data plate says it will operate from 6-130 HZ and lists a range of RPM from 96 to 3680 that tells me was probably intended to operate off of VFD in the first place.
Is there any practical way using a meter to determine which wires to pair up to connect to 3 connections on the VFD?
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I would use the ohm meter function first to get a better idea of what you have. I suspect you have three windings with both ends of each winding brought out. That would allow you to connect it as either star or delta.
Dan
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Thanks Dan. I should have known that. My dad explained.star and delta for.commercial applications when I was a teenager... a long time ago. That's probably it.
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wrote:

Well, a quick check doesn't seem to be the case. Get about 20 ohms between any two of three wires and 2 ohms between any 2 of the other three.
A start winding and a run winding? Which one is which? I would guess the lower impedance (higher load) would be the run winding.
Will putting a start timer relay on the start winding do anything funny to the VFD when it disconnects if that's the case?
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wrote:

It sounds like a 2 speed motor -- 2 sets of windings. 96 RPM @ 6 Hz is a 4 pole winding; 3680 RPM @ 130 Hz is 2 poles.
--
Ned Simmons

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wrote:

Well, I could use the higher speed range more than the lower. Which set of wires do I hook up? I suppose then I leave the other set dangling with caps on the ends?

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wrote:

My mistake. It say 3/130 hz, not 6/130.
The Data Plate Reads:
Leland Electrosystems Inc Model 6273 Serial TX43042 FR 215 HP 5 HZ 3/130 C Temp rise Cont. NO.71 RPM 96-3680 Class H insulation
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wrote:

It looks like an inverter-rated motor...
96 dvide by 32
32 x 130= 4160 and if you then subtract 10% slip you get 3744 which is right there in the ballpark....
Not sure what the other three wires are for--feedback perhaps or could be there for a ventilating fan I suppose.
Which leaves the odd pair--could be a per/rev feedback, hall sensor or magntic prox or for a fan or perhaps some kind thermal safety...
The odd pair of wires is probably either for a fan or for a thermister
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wrote:

So how do I decide which set to hook up? Just do it and see what speeds I get at what frequency?
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wrote:

First you'd need to figure out which set of wires...
--sorry but theres way for me to tell without actually looking at it's insides.
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Bob, this is just a guess, but I'm thinking it WON'T be the 20-ohm windings.
That's the DCR. With AC (even at low frequencies) the inductance of the windings will usually make them conduct somewhat less current than the DCR would allow with DC applied.
With a 20-ohm DCR, the maximum any winding could draw would be 12 amps at 240 volts DC -- Even at inrush... even when stalling.
That doesn't sound like any 5HP motor I've used before. Mine had LOW winding resistances.
Lloyd
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    [ ... ]

    What is the resistance between the two spare wires? If it is close to zero Ohms, I would suggest that it is an overtemperature sensor.

    I like the suggestion that the second set of three leads (the higher resistance set) is a built-in fan, intended to be run by the three phase from before the VFD. Since you don't have straight three phase, you would have to add a capacitor to the 240 single phase to run the fan.
    As an experiment, I would suggest that you connect the higher resistance leads alone to the VFD, with it set up to produce the normal 60 Hz output, and see if you hear a fan spinning inside the motor. (It might be spinning backwards. I've got no way to tell which direction is forwards, with all six wires black. Is there a vent at each end of the motor, so you could feel air flowing through? If so, see which direction (switch two of the three wires to reverse) feels like it is producing more airflow. But it may be a sealed motor, with the fan just circulating air between the center and heat sink fins at the outside. (You have not put up a photo of the motor (use the dropbox if you don't have a web site), and that might give some clues.
    But if that gives fan operation sounds (and perhaps airflow out the ends), then the lower resistance leads should be the motor itself. (At 5HP, I would expect low resistance.) So, connect those wires to the output of the VFD and see what the motor shaft does.
    If both of those work, then comes the trick of finding a reasonable value of run capacitor to keep the fan working. At a guess, try something half-way between the lowest value which gives fan sounds and the highest value.
    Have you tried contacting the maker? With a motor designed and rated for VFD operation, the company is probably not that old, and is likely to still be around. Let them tell you what it really is.
    Given the number of places where you appear to have posted this same question, certainly you should contact the maker to ask about what you have.
    Good Luck,         DoN.
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wrote:

96 RPM/3 Hz = (approx) 3680/3 In light of that, I'll withdraw my 2 speed motor guess and jump on the motor + fan bandwagon. A less likely possibility is that the second winding is some sort of resolver-like feedback device.
--
Ned Simmons

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wrote:

correction: 96 RPM/3 Hz = (approx) 3680/130
--
Ned Simmons

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Sounds like there's a good possibility it's been smoked, suggest pull the bells off and take a look...
--if it's a tefc you'll know right off the bat due to the stink.

I wouldn't put anything between the vfd output and the motor except for the cable that connects the two together--no switches no contactors no breakers not even a set of fuses otherwise damage could occur.
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I am familiar with the smell of cooked. I just smells like machine.

The OPs suggestion of a 2 speed motor makes sense. Now to determine which is which if that is the case. I could use the higher speeds more than the lower speed.

That is kinda what I figured.
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I believe Ned is correct with the 2-speed description.
3-phase motors don't have start windings.
It may be worthwhile to determine what the 2 unused wires go to.. they may be a normally closed thermal protection switch/sensor connections (so zero or very low ohms reading), which would be used for cutting the power source when the internal temp exceeds the specific rating of the switch/sensor. Thermal protect connections for a 3-phase motor would typically be wired to the appropriate terminals on the motor drive/VFD.
When attempting to trial run a motor with an unknown history, it's often a good idea to plan for other results besides a perfectly normal motor. Some precautions should always be observed, the first one being to make a clean, secure connection (not just an old piece of speaker wire) to the motor case and connect it to a known good earth ground of the utility electrical system/source.
If not already, a good time to get familiar with the VFD protection settings is before applying power to it.. that generally means having the correct operating manual, and studying it to become familiarized with all of the protection features, how to enable them and what parameters would be appropriate for a motor of unknown history.
--
WB
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wrote:

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As far as checking the two previously unused leads, it depends upon how the meter being used for the test behaves when checking a zero ohm connection.. many DMM meters may consistently display up to about 7 ohms with the lead tips pressed together.
Whatever the meter shows with the tips pressed together is zero then, for that meter.. (assuming the connections are clean and snug at the other ends of the test leads), so if that reading is displayed while checking those 2 leads, then the internal device is most likely a thermal protection switch/sensor.
These types of switches are generally the bi-metal/Klixon type and when their specified temperature is reached, they open (infinity ohms) until the internal motor temp cools to a level where the contacts close again.
--
WB
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A DMM will read low resistances quite accurately if you supply an external current and use the meter to read the voltage drop. I just checked the filament current of a taillight bulb, an old 1034 because it was handy. The Tail filament draws about 0.55A at 12.0V, the Brake one draws 1.7A. Since filament resistance increases with temperature a drop in the voltage caused about half as much change in the current, so you shouldn't have to compensate for the additional drop in the motor winding. If you want good absolute instead of relative measurements, add a $3 HF meter on the 10A range in series.
Attach insulated alligator clips to a trailer light socket to use the bulb as a convenient tester. When I travelled on a motorcycle that was all the electrical test equipment I carried and ever needed. It was perfect for setting ignition timing, mostly for other people.
jsw
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