ABS to metal adheiseive

I need to bond 3" stainless steel tube to ABS fitting. The tube slides inside the fitting and there is a slight gap. The bond needs to survive the
environment in the engine compartment but the vessel that I am constructing will not be subject to pressure. I googled and I keep coming up wit ABS solvent based adhesive which are for bonding ABS to ABS. Any ideas?
--

Boris Mohar



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Perhaps something from the "sikaflex" range. A couple of their adhesives I've used have been "permanent" joins.
http://www.sikaindustry.com / http://www.sika.com.au
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There's little except solvent adhesives that will properly bond ABS, and those won't stick to metal well.
On the long shot that there will be NO vibration or force on the joint, you'd get away with thoroughly roughing the inside of the plastic, then bonding it with an RTV urethane, or some other flexible cure-in-place adhesive.
The right way to do this is to use mechanical fittings on the metal, and solvent fittings on the ABS.
Another alternative would be to simply slip-fit the two, and applying a neoprene "repair boot" across the joint which mechanically clamps to both the metal and ABS parts.
In fact... I think I'd like that solution above the rest. It would maintain positive force to keep the joint slipped together, it would flex, and it would withstand moderate pressure.
LLoyd
LLoyd
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wrote:

I would suggest (from a position of profound ignorance) to go to an auto-windscreen repair place and scrounge some of the rubber glue that they use. It'll survive temperature excursions and differential expansion and will bond to a roughened surface as well as anything.
Mark Rand RTFM
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Mark Rand wrote:

Also, there is an automotive product called "Goop" - *not* the hand cleaner! This stuff is a clear glue that glues dang near anything to anything. I last used some to glue taillight lenses on my old Thunderbird, worked great.
GWE
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On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 13:07:08 -0700, Grant Erwin

The Shoe Goop is, IHMO better than the regular. I glued the side mirror on the neighbor ladies car a couple months ago..she runs it through a mechanical car wash once a week. No issues yet.
Gunner
"If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're around."
"Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right before demode` (out of fashion). -Buddy Jordan 2001
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On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 02:49:58 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner

Is that my favorite, sexy, young (drug using, sigh), beautiful neighbor?
Reminder 3: Status check on the book and Alice clips...
-- Once we believe in ourselves, we can risk curiosity, wonder, spontaneous delight, or any experience that reveals the human spirit. --e e cummings
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wrote:

There's an industrial version called E6000, also by Goop. I don't know if it's any better than other flavors of Goop. I found it in a mill end fabric store of all places. 6 bux. They claim it'll stick to ABS but I haven't tried it. It sure sticks to everything else I've tried it on.
http://www.eclecticproducts.com/e6000CraftAdhesive.htm
My tube looks like the "craft" version, but it wasn't blisterpacked and doesn't say "craft" on it.
Mill End Textiles in the midwest is a good place to get good green felt cheap for tool drawers and boxes.
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Epoxy or silicone would work. Scuff the surface of the plastic to improve adhesion. For that matter scuff the surface of the stainless also.
--

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Roger Shoaf

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wrote:

I tried various epoxies and silicone. Scuffed provided bit more anchorage but I was adamant to find something that worked. Haven't tried Goop yet. In the mean time I decided to do some chemistry. I used a propane hand torch and lightly flamed the ABS surface. It made a stink and wife didn't approve. Whatever became of ABS on the surface was not ABS any more. I applied RTV 162 bead to it and let it sit overnight. On a untreated piece the RTV would slide off ABS quite easily. On the flame treated surface the bond stayed put and could not be peeled off. I think that it established some kind of chemical bond. We have something here.
--

Boris Mohar



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You need to think about the nature of the joint. If you for instance run a bead of silicone on window glass, it is not much to peel off the glue from the window. If you ran a bead of silicone on the sidewalk the same would also be true. But if you smeared the surface of a sheet of glass with silicone and pressed it to the side walk it would be stuck but good.
In your question you have a 3 inch tube inside of a slightly larger hole and not a great deal of pressure. when the silicone or epoxy cures it is going to have a lot of surface area and should retain your tube without any trouble.
--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.
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wrote:

There is one aspect of this bond that I have not described. One end of the SS tube will have a SS bottom welded to it and the other end will be glued into an ABS adapter topped of with two ABS hose barb fittings. The function of this vessel is a catch can for condensing and collecting blowby gasses and oil moist form a turbocharged car. One barb connects to the crankcase while the other goes to the turbo inlet. There is a drain and internal SS scouring pads trap. I was bit concerned not only with mechanical bond but with chemical resistance to the witches brew that comes out of crankcase. I could have made the whole thing out of ABS but I wanted some cooling of the catch can to achieve better condensation. I could have made it out of Aluminum but I yet have to learn how to TIG Aluminum. Besides, the rest of the modifications were done in SS so it kind of goes together. Catchcan pictures are not in yet but rest of the project is here: http://www.viatrack.ca/TURBOMAN / This would not have been completed yet (well it will really never be really completed) without the diligent help of some members here.
--

Boris Mohar



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Either silicone or epoxy when cured are impervious to gasoline, motor oil, diesel fuel or transmission fluid. I think if it were me designing the box as you describe, where the thin box was attached to the 3 inch stainless tube, I would make a collar from ABS and solvent bond the collar to the ABS box. The collar would be split and either a large hose clamp or perhaps a collar clamp could mechanically grab the stainless tube, the silicone would be just a sealant.
For the barb fittings I would change the design a little bit also. I would solvent bond a stiffener section to the box, and then drill and tap the holes to accept a tapered pipe thread. Here again, the actual plastic to metal bond would be mechanical, and the silicone would only be a sealant.
Another factor to consider is that ABS might not be a good choice for the chemical resistance. Look at this: http://www.rtpcompany.com/info/guide/resistance.htm
ABS is listed here as being poor in the chemical resistance department to hydrocarbons.
Another problem could be if the temperature causes some mischief. IIRC crank case oil should run about 200 F. If you look at this: http://www.matweb.com/reference/deflection-temperature.asp you might be running into a problem with the temperature especially if you are running hard and your oil temp is running high.
Perhaps HDPE might be a good choice, but that has a lower melting point, and fabrication becomes tricky because you can't glue the stuff. Vacuum forming might get you something but I think the cheap and easy route would be a metal box.
--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
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wrote:

Arrgh.. Since it is near complete this will turn into durability test. If and when it falls apart I will replace ABS parts with stainless.
I do not what possessed me top make a blatant assumption that ABS will hold up to hydrocarbons.

Those are useful links. Thanks.

--

Boris Mohar



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If
hold
You might be able to line the inside of the box with silicone. I think they make a brushable viscosty. If you can't fnd that you can always get the large size they use in calking guns and pretend yu are "frostng" the inside of the box. This might extend the life of the ABS.
--

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Roger Shoaf

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When I tried blocking of an apparently leaking cold start passage in a carburetor with silicone I was disturbed to find, later, that the silicone had expanded to about three times its original volume. Might have been caused by insufficient curing before use....
Mark Rand RTFM
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Mark Rand wrote:

No. Silicone will expand ( very much) in the present of gasoline and other hydocarbon.
I found out the hard way.
Howard Garner
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No... most RTV silicones are NOT impervious to gasoline, or any other light-fraction petroleum solvents. A very few are, but they must be selected for that characteristic.
LLoyd
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Hey Boris,
Maybe you have solved this already, but you might try:
<http://www.aircraftspruce.com/
and, for Valco Cincinnati multi-purpose sealant, type the part number in the little box in the left mid-upper
    09-00277 2 oz tube or 09-00278 for 7oz. size
blurb says: ......................................................................................................... Valco Cincinnati multi-purpose sealant is a paste-like, one component material that cures to a tough, rubbery solid upon exposure to moisture in the air. Because it doesnt flow due to its own weight, this sealant can be applied overhead or on sidewall joints and surfaces without sagging, slumping or running off. It adheres to clean metal, glass, most types of wood, silicone resin, vulcanized silicone rubber, ceramic, natural and synthetic fiber, and painted and many plastic surfaces.
Valco mutli-purpose sealant has good resistance to weathering vibration, moisture, ozone and extreme temperatures. It may be applied in subzero weather without loss of extrusion or physical property characterisitics and is effective to -46C (-50F). Fully cured Valco multi-purpose sealant can be used for extended periods at temperatures up to 204C (400F), and for shorter periods as high as 218C (425F) ........................................................................................................
Good luck. Take care.
Brian Lawson, Bothwell, Ontario. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
On Sat, 07 Oct 2006 21:09:45 -0400, Boris Mohar

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Boris Mohar wrote:

You could try some of the urethane adhesives used to bond windows into automobiles. They are not particularly cheap, but have lots of "stick"
I think I paid about $15 CDN each tube. It is a tube that fits in a caulking gun, and must be sealed away from moisture prior to use, as the water vapour in the air is part of it's cure kicker.
Cheers Trevor Jones
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