Boring an engine with a hone?

At the machine shop where I once worked, we would reline cylinders used to extrude melted plastic for record (remember them?) production. Anyway, the
stainless steel liner was pressed in the cylinder, welded, then honed to size, don't remember how much honing but I'm estimating at least 0.1" or so. Anyway in those days I had a dirt bike (RM250) that I bored out with the hone, worked great as far as I could tell. I honed it to 0.0005" larger than the minimum size.
This hone was the type with the rack and pinion feed, positive feed feeling. While honing you could feed taper in the bore, out of round, and when it cleaned up, nothing like those springy break cylinder hones.
Anyway, remember my economy car with the bad engine problem, the 2002 escort? Instead of spending $4k on having a mechanic replace the engine with a Jasper remanufactured engine, I'm considering getting something else but working on the Escort. So I'm thinking pull the engine, checking out the damage and probably doing an overhaul myself. Since the valve seat destroyed #4 cylinder I'm thinking get a remanufactured head with the valve seat dropping problem fixed and honing out the cylinders for some pistons of the minimum size that the cylinder walls clean up.
So, should I get a good home (Lisle 15000 maybe?) and hone the cylinders to size or is their some benefit to having the cylinder bored at a machine shop? Depending on how everything else goes, I may just get a rebuilt or remanufactured engine and swap it myself, spending $2k (maybe less) on an engine is a lot better than $4k for an engine in this older car. It may be good for another 5 or 6 years if I can keep clear of the deer!
Thanks!
RogerN
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wrote:

You cannot afford the hone required to take out the damage to the cyl and fit an oversize piston. First oversize is likely 10 thou over - typical honing (with a VERY expensive Sunnen type fixed hone) is in the order of a couple thou. Get the block bored for oversize pistons, and finish honed to proper fit. A LOT cheaper than buying and using a fixed hone.
Been a mechanic since 1969.
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George Bernard Shaw wrote in message

<snip>

At the machine shop we used a home similar to this: (Amazon.com product link shortened)
We relined tubes that were around 36" long with stainless steel pipe and then honed, I don't remember for sure, around 100 thousandths out of this stainless steel bore. This took a few hours to get it honed to size but we were removing a lot of metal much more difficult than iron in around 36" of cylinder. I removed 0.020" from my motorcycle cylinder in a fairly short amount of time, maybe a half hour to 45 minutes with a lot of stopping to measure several different places. I normally didn't hone because the boss had more critical jobs to do so I stopped more often to see how fast material was being removed, checked taper, measured diameter X and Y, etc.
I'm confident that I could get the bore the right size in a reasonable amount of time with a hone like the Lisle, but, like Jon said, I don't know the surface finish would be right and it looks like I can have it done cheaper than the price of the hone not considering the time plus the price for the heavy duty drill.
I had a buddy tell me he polished a cylinder in a model airplane engine, the piston seized up, seems it needs them grooves for holding oil! I can see that the finish could be important for proper break-in, wear, the ability to hold oil in the "scratches".
RogerN
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wrote:

bringing the block to a quality automotive machine shop and letting them clean, bore and hone it. It's not very expensive and if they are a good shop they can do a far better job than you can.<<
And you're a dick .
Roger , get your hands on a rigid Sunnen hone , one that has the rack type feed you mentioned above . I've bored several Harley cylinders with mine with great results . You've got the advantage of a lump of metal that you won't have to bolt into a fixture to hold it still ... plus the fact that you can hone to a fit that meets *YOUR* standards instead of whatever mood the boring machine guy happens to be in on that day . I'm bettin' that he ain't going to take the time to fit your pistons individually to .00075" . I will agree with Yonnie that you might want to have a shop clean it in their dip tank , unless you want to do like I did with my wife's car motor and take it to the car wash . BTW , from your comments above you apparently have the skills to do this job yourself ... and a 50/50 mix of diesel/kero and ATF makes a great honing fluid . And don't forget the post-hone washout !!
--
Snag



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On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 20:32:24 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

Particularly at the cost of a Sunnen rigid hone. And the minimum 2 sets of stones required to do the job properly.
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On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 12:05:00 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

80 for roughing, 320 for finishing.
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wrote:

What can I say ? I bought TWO hones at a pawn shop with several sets of stones <INCLUDING THREE SETS OF BRAND NEW STONES> for fifty bucks . Swapped one hone <I kept the best one> for some Harley parts . I kept the new stones ... OK , so I got lucky .
--
Snag
Still haven't used
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wrote:

Shrug..I have a Sunnen hone and a bunch of grinding arbors to go with it. And 3 bladed ID mikes.
Total cost was less than $400
Something of a fluke...but.....<Grin>
I long term loaned them to a buddy who runs an engine rebuilding shop. Now I dont pay to have an engine rebuilt.
Gunner
"The best government is a benevolent tyranny tempered by an occasional assassination." --Voltaire
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It'll take you a month to take a 4cyl block out to 010 oversized using manual honing equipment--find a shop that sunnen cyllinder king autonatic sizing hone and jave them do it for you.
As far as pistons, rings, bearings lifters and so forth, I suggest order from JC Whitney, my experience with has always been good and their prices usually come in substantially below your local parts houses--though I haven't bought anything from them in about ten years, at that time the parts were still mostly from high quality manufacturers like Clevite, Michigan Bearing and so forth.
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On 10/21/2012 10:33 PM, RogerN wrote:

The elephant in the room---get a good boneyard engine. $300 and an afternoon.
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I've done just this several times on my fleet of gravely commercial lawn tractors. it will take you a couple evenings as it cuts slow.
Karl
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wrote:

I'd have to ask. How much does it cost to have a stripped block bored? What does the "Lisle 15000 maybe" cost and how often do you plan on using it? Do you have the measuring equipment necessary to accurately "bore" a block?
My own experience in engine rebuilding is that it is generally cheaper to take the stripped block to a shop top have the work done.
--
Cheers,
John B.
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wrote:

The lisle 1500 and a set of 80 and 320 grit stones is going to cost the better part of $180, and one mis-step and the stones are history.
Ballanced against about $130 to have the job done right by a good shop. Then he still needs a good bore guage or equivalent micrometers to do the measuring.
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wrote in message

<snip>

I have a good older inside micrometer set.
Lisle hone and stones
(Amazon.com product link shortened)
The machine shop sounds like the better and cheaper way to go but it's always nice to have an excuse to buy new tools :-)
RogerN
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wrote:

It's only nice to have an excuse to buy tools you will use again. I have many that have never been used - and many more that have been used once or twice.
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Ah yes , but the feeling you get when that 300 dollar tool saves you an $1100 mechanic bill is oh-so-sweet . And before I buy new , I usually check the pawn shops . See my post above about my cylinder hone . There are exceptions too , but I've saved thousands of dollars on tools purchased in pawn shops . Test before you buy ...
--
Snag
Bought my lathe
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wrote:

All my woodworking and power tools for YEARS were second hand high end stuff. Finally broke down and bought a NEW 1/2 inch electric drill.
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On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 20:48:09 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

And he NEEDS to do all 4, not just the damaged cyl unless he wants to turn the engine into a Whacker plate tamper.
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