Hi,
I'm new to this group and wanted to ask a question.I'm getting a
gearhead mill/drill next week and can't decide about these clamping
sets they sell for $40-$50 bucks.I'm getting a mill vice with the
machine but have been told I should really at least get one of these
cheap clamping sets.I don't have a lot of money to spare so don't want
to waste a cent.Of couse that is the case for most of us I
guess<g>.Well what do you all think about them?Thank you for your
help.
Tom Munroe
The sets are real nice. But a good first project is to make your own "T"
nuts. The bolts can be replaced with a length of all thread. The cross bars
can be any old longish scrap piece of steel - mill a slot in the middle for
the hold down bolt. And a stack of anything handy will do for the other
side of the hold down assembly. Put a hold down set on your Xmas list -
beats the heck out of another shirt from your mother-in-law.
Karl
I wholeheartedly agree with Karl. This is one of the first projects
that will teach you the use and operation of your new machine, and
allow you to get a feel for how it cuts, how much you can push it and
where the weak points may be.
You can make em out of steel, aluminum or even brass and this is a
good "scrap metal" project.
Gunner, who has done this with EVERY mill he has scrounged up, even
though he has about 100lbs of actual industrial clamps etc.
"In my humble opinion, the petty carping levied against Bush by
the Democrats proves again, it is better to have your eye plucked
out by an eagle than to be nibbled to death by ducks." - Norman
Liebmann
It really depends on what you will do, but at your stage I'd hang onto the
money ! You can make a clamp or two quite easily as needed - machine a T nut
or two, or just a piece of bar in the slot, tap for a suitable bolt.
The only thing I wouldn't skimp on is a decent milling vice - something
really solid with accurately ground surfaces will always be useful.
Dave
It really depends on what you will do, but at your stage I'd hang onto the
money ! You can make a clamp or two quite easily as needed - machine a T nut
or two, or just a piece of bar in the slot, tap for a suitable bolt.
The only thing I wouldn't skimp on is a decent milling vice - something
really solid with accurately ground surfaces will always be useful.
Dave
It really depends on what you will do, but at your stage I'd hang onto the
money ! You can make a clamp or two quite easily as needed - machine a T nut
or two, or just a piece of bar in the slot, tap for a suitable bolt.
The only thing I wouldn't skimp on is a decent milling vice - something
really solid with accurately ground surfaces will always be useful.
Dave
Have to agree with Dave. Hold on to your money. You'll have plenty of
opportunity to spend it.
If the milling vise that comes with the machine is the standard tilting
vise, plan on saving your money immediately to get an actual milling vise. I
think that a genuine Kurt is overkill for your machine. I have the import
clone that I've used for years with great satisfaction. I use the 4" on my
mill/drill and it's the "right" size. I have the rotating base, but don't
use it to save on Z-Axis space.
Carriage bolts with the head slightly ground make dandy clamping bolts and
come in a wide variety of standard sizes. The little step gizmos & clamps
can sometimes be handy, but I still end up augmenting with packing, such as
handy blocks of steel. (blocks I happen to have handy).
I want to second that notion! I made do with the stock tilting one that
came with my mill/drill for a year or two, and it was a horrible mistake.
There is simply no way to get things square or true on it, no matter how
much time you spend trying to indicate it in. Use it as a doorstop and get
a decent mill vise.
I got a 4" mill vise from Enco for about $90 and it has made everything SO
much easier. Like John, I removed the rotating base to save on height.
Personally, I do find that having the clamping kit is helpful, for a newbie
like me. If you go that route, make sure you get the right size... some
mill/drills, like mine, have skinnier tee-slots than the norm. The first
kit that I bought (over eBay) was too big to fit in my tee slots.
Well, people have already suggested that you make your own T nuts and
such to get a feel for the mill. Good idea, especially in Aluminum to
start. AL will make you feel like you are making chips quickly and
won't be as frustrating as steel to start. A good part of the "feel" is
not just he cutting but the set-up/take down/bit changing, etc. It
would make a good project.
However......
Depening on your intentions, I almost guarantee that you will find the
one thing you NEED to clamp just won't work in the vice. At some point
springing for a cheap clamping set will save you aggrivation trying to
scab something together. I'd also put some really cheap 123 blocks or
similar on your list as these can really help to use as spacers and such
for that weird set-up.
A couple of really good quality standard sized endmills to get started
will save you a ton of aggravation also. Skip the cheapo endmills as
you will never be happy with the work you can do.
The face mills that generally come as a "freebie" with mill and drills
are pretty pathetic also. They'll get you by in a pinch but don't blame
your skills when they give frustrating results. If the mill vice you
are getting is the standard that comes with the machine, start saving
for a real vice. Those included vices are more like a drill press vice
and are enough to start but again, will end up lowering the quality of
your work.
When you get the thing going, try and remember that, like painting, good
results require more time being spent in the set-up/prep than the actual
work. Practice getting your set-ups square and doing good locating of
points like holes. It's more fun to be spitting chips out but the
results of taking the time to learn good set up practice will reward you
in the end.
Koz
Here's the tooling that has been most helpful to me, as a newbie with a
mill/drill, feeling my way along. I'm writing this NOT because I know what
I'm doing - I don't - but because as a newbie, my experiences might be of
some value to you. ("You" meaning the original poster, not Koz.)
- Clamping kit (studs, tee nuts, step blocks, etc.) - I dunno, I guess I
could have made my own tee nuts, but there's kind of a chicken-and-egg
problem, how do you clamp the clamps? And you still need the step blocks
and the straps. And the taps to tap the holes in the tee nuts cost near as
much as the clamping kit would, and I'd probably never use them again
because I don't do much work that big.
- Collets or endmill holders. I got endmill holders, but in retrospect I
guess I wish I'd gotten collets. Either way, the difference in quality it
makes over trying to hold the endmill in a drill chuck is ENORMOUS. You
only need holders in the sizes of the shanks of the endmills you have, at
first.
- A couple of end mills. You don't need every size in the world, because
you can always use a smaller bit and make more passes. I don't know what
work you're doing but for what I'm doing (light duty, mostly soft materials)
the import HSS mills have served me just fine for now.
- Face mill for roughing material into square blocks. I used the face mill
that came with the mill/drill, but I had to buy an arbor for it; it cost way
too much money, and I would have been better off just buying a fly cutter
head, maybe.
- Milling vise. I wish that my mill/drill hadn't come with a vise at all,
because it would have saved me from making a lot of scrap until I got my
real vise. A 4" vise was PLENTY for my Jet JMD-15 mill/drill; a 6" would
have been too big.
- Dial indicator, and holder for it. You have to have this, because
otherwise you don't have any way of getting something square to the axis of
movement of the table.
- Parallels. I actually got two sets, one thin and one thick, but I
probably could have just gotten the thick ones. You need these to hold
small stuff up off the bottom of the vise, and they're also useful for
getting stuff set up.
- Bits of scrap metal, both round and bar stock. These are helpful for
supporting and clamping.
- The book "Tabletop Machining", by Joe Martin (Sherline). Helped get me
off the ground.
I'm now taking a milling class at the local technical college; it's helping
me a lot in sorting the wheat from the chaff in terms of what tools I do and
don't need.
Hope that helps!
On 24 Sep 2004 00:19:38 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@auracom.com (G.Tom) wrote:
A clamping set will be very useful. You're likely to find lots of things
that are difficult or impossible to hold in the vise. The cheap sets are
fine for this purpose.
Gary
Hi Guys,
Thank you all for your advice.I think Walter gave me a lot of good
stuff that I was looking for.I have already ordered a 4" Kurt type
vice for my mill.I have a good collection of mills to start with along
with a couple cheapy ones to destroy first<g>.I'm getting a set of
wavy parallels.I just found out how they work and they seem to be the
best for me.I'm certainly looking for a good book on milling.I was
considering"Vertical Milling in The Home Workshop" but the one Walter
mentioned I don't know about.I sure don't want more books that don't
tell me "how to".I bought a lot of books for my 10" SouthBend Lathe a
year or so back and wasted a lot of money on them.What do you think?My
mill is due in the store early next week so I have been planning the
best way to get the machine off my trailer and into my garage shop.I
only have the help of my wife and I'm not so good anymore being
partially disabled due to an illness.I think I can do it but I'll find
out I guess<g>.If anyone has any more advice for a newbie please let
me know.I'm a steam engineer of 28 years but that was almost all in
front of a control panal.I wish I had the opportunity to have trained
on some of the machinery we had at my workplace.Not like the old days
I guess.I should mention I have a good assortment of tooling for the
lathe and the correct measuring equipment for laying out etc..I'm just
new to milling and not so great at turning yet either<g>Thanks again.
Tom Munroe
Canada
Your question is a familiar one, but only now has the thought occurred to me
that it could be very useful if you could find a small shop using manual
machines
to just "visit" a few times and observe some setups being made, noting how
parts
are held, what tools used, etc.
Good luck!
I have "Vertical Milling in the Home Workshop", and it's pretty good,
although you might be surprised how thin it is ("Spindles" and "Screwcutting
in the lathe" are much longer). I'm planning on ordering WPS 34:
"Lathework - a Complete Course" and WPS 35: "Milling: A Complete Course"
since I like Harold Hall's articles in MEW.
I have another milling book that I like, although I can't remember the title
(author was Colvin). I think it was reprinted by Lindsay. It's less hands-on
practical and more survey, although the dividing head section is extensive.
Pete
Howdy Tom,
I live in the Sarnia area so help from you wouldn't work outtoo well
Tom.I really appreciate the offer.I was going to get my gearhead
mill/drill from Wholesale Tool in Warren Michigan(Detroit).It's
actually closer to me than Busy Bee in London.I have been looking at
the Mill/drill with the column but have been crunching my numbers to
try to find the extra to go for a dovetail column and maybe even the
rotating table model.It has a micro switch of some kind but I can't
understand how that works just yet<g>.I'll call them on Tuesday and
get some better info.I know from what I have learned so far from the
groups that a dovetail column is better.Now to convince the "Boss" it
is a better machine for the buck<g>.She has been pretty good about all
this so far.I have been trying to get as much as I can into my shop
before she yells stop and means it<g>.I bet a lot of you know just
what I mean.I wanted to tell any other newbies out there I have found
a wonderfull site to learn the basics.It's the US government site
under "metalworking .com" It has all the important machines and
practices you could want in one site.Great reading!You can download
the whole lot and have a real library of machinist's information. I'm
still studing the milling section and have a lot of others to get
to.Better than shelling out all that cash for "skinny" books<g>Check
it out if you haven't already.Thanks again to all you guys for the
advice.I'll let the group know how the buy goes if and when the time
comes.:-)
Thanks
Tom Munroe
snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (surftom) wrote in message >
Hey Tom,
While Wholesale Tool is a good place to deal (very nice helpful guys
and they have a "Buy-it-by-the-Pound" bin!!), don't bet on it that
they are closer to you than London. Driving distance only is 90Km
versus 110 to London. By the time you get medical coverage and do the
border crossing, time-wise London would be closer by a little bit.
And you won't "save" the PST & GST either, because they now collect
that at the border coming back from the USA into Canada. (That
started about when the duties came off with NAFTA). Plus you also pay
Michigan Sales Tax at Wholesale Tool, or spend time doing a form for
them indicating/declaring "Export".
A quick peek at the Wholesale Tool catalogue I have, indicates that
some of the Mill/Drills are sold "FREIGHT ONLY". I'm not real sure
what that means, but if it means what I think it means, you'll pay
shipping and the broker fees across the border too. Look into that
first. Quality wise though, WT might be better than BB.
Take care.
Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
On 28 Sep 2004 02:41:18 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@auracom.com (G.Tom) wrote:
Just to clear things up -- that is *not* a US Government site,
but rather a site which happens to have copies of US Government
publications of interest to metalworkers. They were written for
training Army personnel, but are free (downloads) to everybody. You
could also obtain hardcopies by buying them (for relatively little
money) from the GPO (Government Printing Office). I have seen some in
which certain photos were not included in the scanned one -- because
they were owned by some other company, and the Government can print them
for "in-house" use, but can't distribute them via the internet.
The reason that Steve set copies up on his
"http://www.metalworking.com " website is that some systems (especially
those from outside the country) are blocked from accessing the actual
Government sites on which they are normally found. There is no reason
to not make these particular publications available to the world, but
since the main site is owned by the Army (or some Navy ones as well),
*those* have to worry about attacks, or attempts to access other
documents of greater restriction, so they simply block any out-of-country
sites from access.
They are excellent books on the basics.
One book (pair -- a two-volume set) is _Machine Shop Practice_
by Moultrecht. It covers a lot of different factors of machines, both
common ones and uncommon ones for the hobbyist, and is where I go to
help figure out a new tool.
Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Email: < snipped-for-privacy@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
Hi All,
I'm not sure what is happening to my replys but they aren't showing
up.I want to thank you all for your advise on this question.I will get
a clamping set.Thay are only $35 and I value my time more than that
right now.Don't get me wrong here.I understand the need to learn and
making your own tooling is a good thing but I'm not well and can only
get into my shop a few hours a week at best.I want to use that time to
work on a model steam engine I have had for ten years.It's the Stuart
10 horizontal.I will take some time to learn on scrap for a little
while,can't get around that can you:-)Thanks again.
tom
I think that the problem is that you are posting from Google
(based on your headers). As I understand it, google, while very good at
archiving anything ever posted is very slow about getting new
locally-posted articles into the news-spool where you can see them. (It
may be in an attempt to control spam being posted through their system,
or it may be plain inefficiency.) Anyway -- expect your new articles to
not show up for several hours.
You probably should consider getting an account with a real news
server (yes, it will cost you, but not very much, and you will get
faster confirmation that your articles really made it out.
And consider getting a real newsreader program, instead of using
a web browser for the task. (And *don't* use Outlook Express as a
newsreader -- it opens you to the potential of yet more virii if you are
on a Windows system.) Yes, you can keep on top of it with sufficient
anti-virus software, but why provide a known open door for them?
Best of luck,
DoN.
--
Email: < snipped-for-privacy@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
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