Derusting muzzle loader bore

>>cross-posted<<
Today I scored a muzzle loader at a yard sale for a measly 15 bucks . Great deal , right ? Well , maybe . I got looking at the bore a bit ago
and there is some pretty heavy rust in there - much more than I expected from the condition of the outside . I believe the 2 top contenders for derusting are phosphoric acid and Evaporust . I'm wondering which will be best in this situation . I intend to cast some lead laps to polish the bore if needed , but I won't know the true condition until the rust is gone . And the barrel may not be salvageable ... The plan is to pull the breech plug and strip the barrel , stick it inside a piece of PVC of the proper size and fill the pipe with solution . Pumping a bore brush in the barrel to circulate fresh solution will be done periodically . So kids , which shall it be ?
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On 10/8/2021 4:25 PM, Snag wrote:





I've used EvaporRust and its "okay." It neutralizes most rust, but in the case of a muzzle loader bore I'd probably power a brass brush through at several times, and then take a look at what's left. The biggest issue would be if the muzzle is eroded. The crown and muzzle are as important to accuracy as the rifling. Honestly some pretty bad rifling can still spin stabilize the bullet, but the muzzle needs to be uniform. Often if the crown is messed up they can be recrowned.
I've shot BP since my mid teens. Maybe 40 years. Not an expert... well except at doing things wrong.
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On 10/8/2021 8:37 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:










I think there's decent rifling under the rust , for sure the muzzle and the last couple of inches look not too bad, we'll see after I scrub it out . I hesitate to use anything solvent based , I think soap and water first off with a brass brush . Somewhere around here I think I have a small bottle of JB's Bore Scrub . I used that stuff to polish a 22-250 bore many years ago and it went from 3/4" groups to under 5/8 ' ... actually I almost hope it needs to be rebarrelled . Gives me a chance to maybe build a .36 to match my C&B revolver .
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On 10/8/2021 8:31 PM, Snag wrote:











My very first powder burner was a .36 Navy CVA kit. I let it get away years ago, but recently decided I wanted one again. I found Dixie Gunworks sold a Pietta kit. Its rumored on Internet forums that Pietta likely made my original CVA kit so I bought one.
Timed to start at the big reveal.
https://youtu.be/9OuR1x9BK4o?t

https://youtu.be/9OuR1x9BK4o?t
&9
So... do you have a source for a .36 barrel liner? I've looked at Redman liners before with a thought to use some of them for higher power airgun builds. I don't recall a .36 liner. Not that there isn't one. Its just something I'ld like to know about.
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On 10/10/2021 11:20 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:




My first was also a CVA , a .50 plains rifle . It's standing in a corner . It now wears a 2-7 variable extended eye relief scope intended for a Mosin-Nagant ... my eyes ain't what they useta be . I followed up the rifle with an 1860 Navy .36 revolver kit (Navy version of the 1858 Remington I think) , mostly just sanding and polishing the frame , wood , and brass parts . Dad liked mine so much he bought and built a .45 Kentucky Rifle and an 1858 Remington .44 revolver . I got the revolver , one of my brothers got the Kentucky Rifle .
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On 10/11/2021 6:20 AM, Snag wrote:





I'm playing the idea right now (just in the mental images stage at the moment) with the idea making a 209 primer cylinder and firing pin hammer. It will still be functionally a cap and ball, but it should have better ignition, lower chance of cap jams, and better weather resistance. I haven't decided to "do it" just yet. Lots of other projects going. It would require off gun loading unless I invent some other stuff too, but if I make one cylinder I could make a couple.
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On 10/13/2021 3:41 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:







Is a 209 significantly longer than a nipple and cap ? Well , I guess it wouldn't matter , since you'll be making contact with a point (more or less) rather than a flat surface - can you source or fabricate a new hammer so you don't destroy the original ? Does it matter to you to be able to restore it to original ? I think you'd want to make a new drum and the "nipple" can be just a short cylinder ... would you want the flash hole a tiny bit larger due to the increased gas output from the 209 ? <<My neighbor is a fast-draw competitor , they use 209's as the propellant for a wax bullet>> Dammit , all I need is more potential projects whirling around in my head ! Today I ordered the rest of the parts I know I need to tear down my 1990 FLH trans and replace a whining main drive gear/countershaft 5th pair and the primary chain and both sprockets . Plus next week I'll be bringing my truck home (son in Memphis , Grrr.) with the potential of rebuilding the motor because it got ran out of oil - not his fault , broken oil pressure switch for the ID10T light . I'll bore scope the cylinders when I get it home and decide then which way to go . I might be lucky and it didn't damage the cylinder walls - but I doubt that , he thought it had seized so ... If I gotta tear it down it ain't goin' back together stock !
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On 10/21/21 3:58 PM, Snag wrote:








You should film all this shit and put it up on utube.
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On 10/21/2021 3:22 PM, Nic wrote:








I think I'll pass ... I've got nothing to prove to anyone , and these days I prefer to keep as low a profile as I can .
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On 10/21/21 5:32 PM, Snag wrote:









I understand, it is our loss.
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On 10/21/2021 12:58 PM, Snag wrote:







I think it would be no big deal to duplicate the hammer with a hammer held firing pin much like many early cartridge revolvers like the .32 S&W and the H&R 922 .22 among many others. I think ideally the firing pin should depress the primer just enough as the area around it lays flat across the primer. Should help reduce primer bulge or primer pop as well. With a setup like that I'd start with a light load and work up until either I got primer bulge or I got similar velocities to regular #10/11 cap guns.


Good luck. I've gotten to hate working on vehicles. Only reason I do it is because I hate paying somebody to do it wrong or not do what I asked even more. To many times in my youth I was up late fixing my vehicle so I could make it to work the next morning. Usually very early. One time I got home early with a need for sleep when smoke poured out from under the dash because the entire wiring harness suddenly melted down. I was up until 3am chasing wires so I could be to work by 6:30. It wasn't the first time I had set that car on fire either. The first time there was less smoke, but more fire when a hydraulic clutch line burst spraying fluid all over a red hot header pipe. I hate working on vehicles. When I can I get my son to do it. He's not the world's best mechanic, but with him I can work in the shop and walk out every once in a while to double check his work. He also follows directions fairly well, and he isn't afraid to tell me when I am just plane wrong.
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On 10/21/2021 3:56 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:















I don't hate it ... I just don't enjoy it as much as I did 40 years ago . I will not let anyone else work on my bikes in particular . Nobody cares as much about Snag's ass as Snag ... The cars , well , it's as you say much cheaper to do it yourself . My son can wrench some , but unfortunately his work doesn't quite meet my standards . I don't take shortcuts . The one exception to do it myself is automatic transmissions . I know there's nothing mysterious about them , but I just don't have the specialized tools needed and have no desire to buy or make them . I gotta say , I'm kinda looking forward to building this motor . The GM 305 has a lot of potential , I'm thinking a low RPM torque cam , say
rise manifold (Edelbrock Torker ?) and some small tube headers . It's got a 700R4 trans , and I'll be installing that set of 3.42's that are sitting next to my desk in the axle . It's not going to be a screamer , just a decent truck with snappy acceleration .
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On 10/21/2021 03:45 PM, Snag wrote:

My only brush with an AT was the Torqueflite out of a '60 Plymouth. I had big balls and no special tools. Taking out internal snap rings with a couple of ice picks was interesting.
Ultimately the car wound up with a manual, which involved fabricating a hydraulic clutch. After a roadside inspection courtesy of the NY State Police I replaced the rear axle. The AT parking brake was a drum on the tail of the tranny and I needed a working parking brake to make Occifer Friendly happy. More fabrication.
When I went into the service I pulled the engine, drove over to a friend's house, and left it hanging from the garage rafters, He wasn't home and his mother was a little bemused but she was sort of used to strange shit when I was around.
I work on the bikes and the semi-retired F150 but the Toyota doesn't ask for much except an oil change every 5000. Can't say I miss the drama.
The next project will be the DR650 which marks its spot. I think it is the chain tensioner gasket which isn't too bad. The earlier versions tended to have base gasket problems but mine has the steel gasket that was supposed to be the fix. Oil being what it is means a tablespoon full covers everything and looks like the end of the world making the source difficult to find. I've got to remember to pick up some baby powder. I tried some chalk I had in the shop but it didn't work all that well.
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On 10/21/2021 2:45 PM, Snag wrote:



















I've repaired two transmissions in my life. One was a Turbo 350 in a 71 Caprice. I tore it completely apart, and was prepared to tank all the parts I was reusing. I had them in a crate behind the parts washer at our hardware store. Somebody decided to use the parts washer, and dumped the brick on top (to keep it from blowing open) into my box of parts by lifting the lid instead of setting it aside. It broke a (piston?) large ring with a seal and springs mounted on it. I was broke after buying the rebuild kit so I was stuck. I think my dad broke it because he scrapped another transmission to get me a replacement piston out of another 350. It was the same dimensions, but had fewer springs on it. I put it all together and it worked great for a couple months, and then progressively started to fail. It got worse and worse. I left the car behind on a fairgrounds in Redlands California because it wouldn't move. The other was a manual transmission in a Ford F150. I didn't even take the transmission out. I just ripped out the floor liner, pulled the floor cover, pulled the top of the transmission out, and snapped on new nylon shifting fork riders. Worked perfectly.
In the past I wrenched because I had to. Now I wrench because I hate paying somebody to not quite do it right. I can not quite do it right myself and make my own decision about whether or not its good enough instead of being surprised when I have to walk home.
I'm a big fan of RV cams (long duration) in "trucks." I put one in a 1982 Bronco with a 351. It would slow walk at idle in first almost as slow as an old 4 banger Jeep and climb a steep grade doing it. The other was a 76 Ford F150 (yeah the one above) with a bored over 360. It would slow walk (crawl) ok, but the big thing is it would tow almost anything. Not much top end, but if you kept it in its power band when you shifted it would get to top end in a hurry. That truck had so much torque I had to drill and bolt through the motor mounts because they kept tearing when the engine lifted up.
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I've had mixed results with evaporust. It does remove rust, but it will then suddenly darken steel, and that's even harder to clean.
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On 9/10/21 10:25 am, Snag wrote:

Citric acid is great for heavier derusting. The converted iron citrate is easier to remove from the surface than iron phosphate. Phosphoric acid is better for light rust when you intend to paint over it afterwards, as the iron phosphate is stable and won't loosen.
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On 10/8/2021 11:14 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:


I think we have a bottle of powdered CA on the shelf ... we use it when we can tomatoes !
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"Snag" wrote in message
On 10/8/2021 11:14 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:

I think we have a bottle of powdered CA on the shelf ... we use it when we can tomatoes !
Snag Let's Go Brandon !
--------------------------
How about electrolytic derusting??
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On 10/9/2021 6:30 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:




I'm not sure electrolytic will work inside that confined space , not much circulation of the solution .
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"Snag" wrote in message
On 10/9/2021 6:30 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

I'm not sure electrolytic will work inside that confined space , not much circulation of the solution .
------------
I asked to see if anyone had obtained good results. I would expect difficulty sealing the ends into a circulating system and insulating a central iron wire. Maybe a spiral of string around it would be enough? I bought Flex paste to make custom rubber parts such as odd sized tubing adapters and antiskid feet but wasn't impressed with its low tear strength. Perhaps you could turn tubing to barrel adapters from wood and line them with Flex or liquid electrical tape.
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