I got a request to cross match a European steel alloy to US:
Looks to be 40mm x 2.5 mm wall. Spec is "EST.460" alloy steel. Used in
a roll bar structure. I'm expecting it to be something close to 4130
Any info? Google and Matweb come up dry.
I just googled for EST.460 and found a single source:
A Porsche Fan Forum. They were talking about a roll bar. :-))
Have a look here (search for 460):
Maybe you can contact the poster and ask him where he got the tube from.
I bet he can talk English.
Sounds like the tensile strength is 460 N/mm^2. That may give you an
indication as to what you're looking at - see if it matches the tensile
strength of 4130, for instance.
-- Alright, I just did the math and it looks like the tensile strength
of annealed 4130 is about 550N/mm^2. You're looking for a material with
a tensile strength of about 67,000 psi... I think...
Must be something going around, the EST.460 spec came from a Porche
aftermarket supplier. In German.
The request came from a Porche owner who wanted to upgrade his rollbar
with a used one from a friend. The club race tech committee is populated
with lawyers (and NOT engineers !!???) who want documentation. I've
fought the "or equivlent" battles with other tech committees but at
least those were engineers that could make an informed decision.
Sounds like the bar in question is going to be something like 67kpsi
yield. This would be ok for the application but I'm certainly not going
to reccomend it based on the info I've seen so far. The drivers use the
term "wadding up" to describe the ultimate use for the bar. I tend to be
somewhat fussy on this stuff.
Thanks for the help and translation.
Nick Müller wrote:
You have read my other posting? It is not EST.460, it must be StE 460
I gave you specs in other standards.
It is used for tubes. In the Porsche-group (note the spelling of
Porsche) the tube was describe as seamless drawn.
Yes, lawyers are challenged.
I saw the other post, looked up as much as I could. I have a fair amount
of experience in tube specs in the US (Buying 4,000,000 feet a year of
mixed tube sizes and materials) but none to European specs. For this
application, I want to see the manufacturer say "this is xxx" spec" and
I know what it is. If they said "4130 in normalized condition to SAE 513
Type 5" (which is what I suspect the roll cage is made of) I'd be
perfectly happy. Pointers to and translations of specs is great but
random conversation in any NG just doesn't cut it.
I see I spelled Porsche wrong, oh well. I normally drive a Jeep that
needs a roll bar for entirely different reasons. :)
Nick Müller wrote:
So, have you called the person who wants to build this item to
clarify the spec they want, and then called one of your main tube
suppliers with the info to see what they say?
I'll make an educated guess that when you track down that 'StE 460'
spec, it's a pretty close translation of the 'SAE 513 Type 5' spec
written for USA'n roll bars and cages. In other words, 4130.
The reason I'm saying this is they would want complimentary specs in
the protective equipment - bring a US built race car to Europe, or
vice versa, without having to rip out the US-spec roll cage (that is
usually an integral part of the chassis) and install one that meets
the European standards, and reverse the process when they bring it
The specs must be written properly - where else can you watch
someone stuff a car into a concrete `wall at 200 MPH while upside-down
and spinning, and literally walk away from the crash...?
Try that in your family car sometime - On second thought, don't.
So you are blaming me for the specs of two other people?
I gave you several different specs, and if your dealer can't do anything
with 1.8901 or S460N better change him.
And if you can't google your standards, better get offline and order
another 1219,2 km of tube.