I would guess that government regulations forcing auto makers into certain safety modes and certain air pollution modes - moved autos to be computerized. Remember the early ones ? - 'oh your computer broke - $400 now!'
Those computers are now hardened a bit more for auto and the auto makers know how to spec them better.
It is the computer and the computer control - so much of the engine is beyond help, the Radio is throwaway while earlier, change a tube or vibrator... Electronic modules are now turn signals not thermo-relays...
Some of this stuff is hard to come by - but possible. Getting the binary codes the computers report is yet another problem.
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 05:34:45 GMT, "Martin H. Eastburn" vaguely proposed a theory ......and in reply I say!:
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Yehe! My radio has a "mind of its own" I tell ya. I don;t bother any more. No great loss to me, as i am not much into music while driving anyway, but........
Yes. It's basic stuff, really, that these things are doing, but they can be hidden behind enything when it's software.
***************************************************** Dogs are better than people.
People are better than dogs for only one purpose. And then it's only half of ofthe people. And _then_ most of them are only ordinary anyway. And then they have a headache.........
I didnt research the com bar seperators well enough while I was fixing starters. The seperators that were designed to wear equally with the com bars were almost transparent in the starters I encountered. I suspect it is probably acceptable to *not* undercut almost all passenger car starter's com bars. I cant remember when a "proud" seperator was the cause for a starter's failure. One thing I do remember from a Delco document was their referance to how conductive dust accumulating in the undercut slots could diminish the comutating effect. I never saw that as a problem either.
I started noticing this on rebuilt starters about 10- 12 years ago. At first I thought it just because I bought cheap rebuilds, but I found it on the high priced spread as well.
The problem I had, was not with uneven wear on the commutators, but that after 6 months the separators smeared junk all over the comm bars and starting became a chore.
Now I take the rebuilds apart and undercut the comm just to keep me from having to take it out in 6 months.
Actually, in the '70s and '80s, performance declined. Performance didn't start coming back until the mid '90s.
I just jumped from a 289 hp car to a 400 hp car, and guess what, fuel mileage improved. The 350Z got an honest 25 MPG while the new Corvette gets 28 MPG on the same trips. (I used "honest" above because the Z never got its manufacturer claimed MPG, but the Vette does.) The Z has a 3.5 liter V6 while the Vette has a 6.4 liter V8.
As a point of historical comparison, the last Corvette I had, a pre-electronics era '63 Stingray which made 300 hp, only got
12 MPG. Sedans of the era got about 14 MPG from 210 hp engines. We've come a *long* way from there.
The Vette is now my high MPG champ. The rest of my fleet doesn't do as well. My '97 Intrepid 3.5l V6 215 hp, gets 27 MPG, my 2x4 '93 Cherokee 195 hp 4.0l I-6 gets 22 MPG, and my 4x4 '87 Comanche pickup 190 hp 4.0l I-6 gets 24 MPG. (No explanation for the latter, it shouldn't do that well, but it has, since new.)
My '78 F350 dually with a 400 cu-in V8 gets 6 MPG (luckily I don't have to drive it every day). And my '66 98 Olds 425 cu-in V8 gets
12 MPG (but this one is a jewel, 62,000 actual miles, all original, in my family since new). These are more typical of the pre-computer era.
You gotta give those software bit twiddlers some credit. The newer cars are *so* much better in *both* performance and economy than those from the pre-computer era. And even for recent models, the newer ones produce more power *and* better MPG than their immediate predecessors. We're just finishing replacing our fleet of Durangos at work. We're seeing a MPG improvement of a little over 2 MPG for the new ones compared to the 5 year old ones. The new ones also have more power, and more room. What's not to like?
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:24:39 -0500, Gary Coffman vaguely proposed a theory ......and in reply I say!:
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I think you missed ny point. I know power dropped during ghe 70s and
80s. Then we started to get really well-designed injection system (not scrappy little electronci spark sensors still on carbed cars).
Mid 80s I reckon tyhe real first efficient cars came out. I had an 86 computed injected 6 cyl that got 25MPG, with the same power (150HP roughly) as a mid-70s carbed car that got 18-20 mpg
But I look at cars being built now, and they are using roughly the same technology as they were from mid-80s 1990 onward, but the power is creeping up, so that they use more juice. Buy a 6 cyl family car now and it gets 200 hp and is again back to 20 MPG.
Sorry if we disagre, and your snortin giant gets a really good mileage. I am going by repeated official tests by respected motoring organisations. I have no personla experience of a new car for the last
5 years.
Yup
That's not what repeated reports are telling me.
***************************************************** Dogs are better than people.
People are better than dogs for only one purpose. And then it's only half of ofthe people. And _then_ most of them are only ordinary anyway. And then they have a headache.........
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:24:39 -0500, Gary Coffman calmly ranted:
And I'm surprised it is, given the new MPG requirements.
The V-8's extra torque could have something to do with it. 6.4L? A newfangled Chebby 386 CID? What about transmichigan differences? Both 6-speeds or OD-autos?
Thank Buddha. My fuel-injected/computer-sparked '90 Ford 5L has 100 more horsies than my '68 302 with points and a 2-bbl carb.
With or without the 5th-wheel draggin' behind it?
PRICE! Have you tried one of the plug-in computer enhancers that they've shown on Trucks! lately? The JUICE is one, and a friend with a Dodge diesel says he got 60 more horsies out of his beast with it on a 60% setting (ad lib, I forgot the actual terms he used.) and he likes the truck even better. It hauls his 5th-wheel up mountains without going peddle-to-the-metal any more, and it's more responsive. I see they're coming out with more for gas vehicles now, too.
----------------------------------------------- I'll apologize for offending someone...right after they apologize for being easily offended.
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:40:24 -0800, Sunworshipper calmly ranted:
Thanks. I found that just after a Buddhist got mad at my using "Oh my Buddha" instead of "Oh my God" one time. My reply to him was that sig. ;) I'd never come up against an irate Buddhist before. He must not have been a very good one, y'think? ;)
Saved in better fuel mileage in months/less than a year.
I worked on a lot of dead cars way back when but I've never had one of my own vehicle computers die. All those had points and/or cracked/wet distributor caps, or distributor rotors whose spring top had come off. No spark? No kidding.
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 22:45:33 GMT, Ted Edwards calmly ranted:
Got a laptop?
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Want a hot-pink wet-look leopard privacy guard, Ted?
I sold my first Ultrasuede NoteSHADE today to a lady in Bahstun, MA. The production line is stopped on the black nylon jobs. (Good help is hard to find. I've been through 3 upholsterers so far this year.) Maybe it's time to bite the bullet and get my own industrial sewing machine. I need a change of scenery and job tasks.
Funny, but I wouldn't do that on purpose in person. Sounds like asking for trouble.
$20,000 ? I was just about to undertake building a new (new to me) truck , but had a set way back that has canceled that plan. Now I'm not sure what to do , guess keep my Toy running. Maybe I wasn't following your other post. A month ago I watched the in laws bitch at a new $30,000 truck that wouldn't start and no one had a clue what was wrong. Got me , but seems like people who knew how to work on their vehicles are pretty much lost when the new ones go south.
I don't know what your talking about. I've heard lots of stories of magic boxes going bad. From cross country trips to intersections , with the vehicle just dead from a pot hole to nothing at all. Beating on them seems to be about the only quick fix.
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:42:14 -0800, Sunworshipper vaguely proposed a theory ......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email
AND when they go, several other parts often go with them... They may be getting better (my 1999 vehicle has yet to get to collapse stage, but I am holding my breath), but my 86 EFI beastie would blow a $300 "rotor position sensor" (read "specially shaped Hall effect diode" no doubt) if the primary lead to the rotor was loose . So working on the car became a risky game, if you got even a slight thing wrong.
Make _me_ produce a better car will you? OK, boy. You pay for the bits!
***************************************************** Dogs are better than people.
People are better than dogs for only one purpose. And then it's only half of ofthe people. And _then_ most of them are only ordinary anyway. And then they have a headache.........
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:42:14 -0800, Sunworshipper calmly ranted:
True. I probably wouldn't, but I'd certainly question them about their (un)holy attitude when I make a Sacrilege-R-Us comment. ;)
Irreverently Yours, LJ.
Whoa, I was talking about a $150-$500 handheld unit, pard.
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is one.
So are half the mechanics out there who are SUPPOSED to know. Most people don't GROK electricity or electronics at all.
Bzzzt! You weren't listening quite hard enough. As a mechanic, I replaced some black boxes but none on my -own- vehicles.
Scottish Highland game of tossing telephone poles as far as you can. Another description is "Caber toss, essentially upending a 17-foot tall, 90-pound tree trunk so it lands at 12 o'clock"
Someone here or on the Wreck posted something (a year ago?) about a machine which did that in order to test-tornado-safe rooms. A big Cadillac engine was spinning a tire as the lumber was fed in, tossing the 4x4 at 200mph or something like that. You could make one of those with your 500. It beats a blasè trebuchet all to hell. ;)
I used to undercut using the lathe. Leave the armature chucked after trimming the commutator, grind a bit of HSS to the right width for the insulator, and mount this sideways in the toolholder. Turn the chuck by hand to line up the insulator with the cutter, push the cutter in with the crossfeed, and turn the handwheel to drag the cutter along the insulation to undercut. Takes very little time to cut them all, and a brief polish with alox to remove any burrs will finish it.
I'd still would like to here some Angelo Saxon jokes ! People are so shallow that I have trouble getting wet over the rubber part of my cheap tennis shoes.
I guess I missed what was being said. Thought ya'll were talking about new vs old vehicles. I'd rather sand points or what ever than stand in aw after opening the hood.
Hmmm , ok. I could push the stainless steel dolly it's set on off the plywood , but don't think it will go far... I know someone that wants it and my first try was to trade for a 327 , but the guy said those are real close to obsolete.
There is lots of time and I'm not going out to buy a new truck that I don't have a clue on how to trouble shoot. I had to fight the sales baby to get a Toy with a carb. back in '87.
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:37:00 -0800, Sunworshipper calmly ranted:
I could have caught just the last of that conversation and turned it around to performance vs. cost, but I snipped so you wouldn't get confused.
C'est la vie. ('Sest lavvy' to those of you in Rio Linda)
NEVER put sandpaper inside your distributor. Use a burnisher on points and use compressed air to blow the debris out of the distributor when you're done. Bushings and vacuum advance mechanisms don't like sand.
How's the weather there in LudditeVille? Enjoy your carb/points! I'll enjoy my absolutely stumble-free, clean-burning, nearly maintenance-free, more powerful EFI.
(I sure miss the open spaces under the hood of my old F-100, though.)
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