non-standard bronze bushings - "building up their bores" using unconventional methods (pix online)

hi guys,
I'm overhauling my old Sasgen Derrick spur-geared winch. parts are no longer available for it - the company closed recently, after over a
hundred years in business in Chicago. the two 1.125 diameter shafts ride in (what I call) "eared bronze bushings" or "externally keyed bronze bushings", all four of which are badly worn - I'll need to either replace (which seems unlikely) or 'refurbish' those STRANGE bushings, somehow or another.
I'm considering a few (possibly bizarre) approaches, and I'd also appreciate any ideas *you* have on how to best accomplish the goal. 'best' here defined as 'most bang for the least buck'. especially please see this image (and the caption below it), and the four images or so immediately following it, which should clearly illustrate the problem.
http://machines.pandela.net/sasgen_winch_overhaul/photos/photo37.html
thanks for ideas and tips,
toolie
- - replies by e-mail, if any, please remove the weirdstuff from my address before you click 'send' - thanks :-) - -
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How about if you start with a standard bushing, have it turned (if needed ) to the proper ID and OD and then have a keyway cut into it so that a separate key can be used?
ISTR a process (sputtered chrome?) that could build up a worn steel part which would then be ground down to the desired final size. Many years ago a cow-orker had a gear for his tractor repaired that way.
That process could be used to repair the shaft to a diameter slightly larger than original and the bushings bored out to match.
But first I would do a thorough search to verify that there are no replacement bushings available.
It would also be possible to have exact replacements for the bushings custom milled from round stock.
Which of these, if any, is cheaper than buying a new winch I leave to you to decide....
--
FF



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Dial in the existing bushings and bore them straight to a standard size. Maybe 1 3/8"?
Obtain some standard bronze bushings in the correct OD, with an ID smaller than the desired finished size. If you just like to machine brassy stuff, buy a 13" bar of "bunting stock" in your favorite flavor. Naval bronze, Aluminum bronze, plain old brass, whatever. You MIGHT even save a couple of bucks over the price of finished bushings.
Silver solder, heat and shrink, loctite and press, pick your favorite method and insert the bushings in the bores.
Do whatever you are going to do to the shafts, bore the bushings to the desired fit, and assemble.
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How about using a standard round bushing, slightly oversized. Press it in, ream or burnish it to size on the ID... Keep a "lip" on one size and and then use a shaft collar or maybe pressed-on bearing to hold the bushing in place from the other side / laterally since it looks as if that pin keeps it from sliding in and/or out? It shouldn't spin in the housing... We don't pin, key or even set-screw ours in place and we stroke a quill against them 24/7 on production drills. No movement.
It looks as if the keyway of sorts was put in to keep it from spinning... Stabilization. I'd think there were other ways to stabilize it.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
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Or... How about re-working it so that the housing and shaft simply use a standard roller bearing? You might have to be creative to keep it in the housing as I'd be real careful pressing anything into that bore, but it might work well for you...
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
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Or... Open the ID of the existing bronze, press in a new piece of bronze tube as a liner to get the proper OD for the reworked shaft diameters? Maybe use AluminumBronze for a harder surface that is still softer than the steel shafts?
Is that solid bronze or oil-filled stuff?
If it is oil-filled, you can forget making anything stick to it unless it is pressed in, threaded in, etc. Even then, it's a weak(ish) material that doesn't hold "stuff" well.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
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dave wrote:

Babbitting them would be high on my list of possible approaches.
John
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wrote:

Shit..thats easy. Bore out the existing bushings and press in liners.
Gunner
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So many ideas so far. Bore a new one that is round and mill a key slot in od and make a custom key to locate it?
Wes
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"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail".
So, if you want to do it yourself, and since you have no machine tools, you're limited to the epoxy or babbit, no? Pick one, try it. Not much to loose - you probably can't screw things up irreparably.
Or, you can take it to someone who does have the tools to do it properly and pay them to do it. And ask for their recommendation.
John Martin
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John Martin wrote:

thanks for all your help and ideas so far, guys. well, I removed the bronze 'eared' bushings yesterday, (and made a few disheartening discoveries in the process). so I've posted a few new pix:
the bushing bores IN the frame have conical (tapered) bores: http://machines.pandela.net/sasgen_winch_overhaul/photos/photo44.html - - - and the bushing bores are "rough cast" not machined: http://machines.pandela.net/sasgen_winch_overhaul/photos/photo55.html - - - the bushings themselves have conical OD's, to mate, of course: http://machines.pandela.net/sasgen_winch_overhaul/photos/photo45.html and http://machines.pandela.net/sasgen_winch_overhaul/photos/photo46.html - - - and the *biggest* problem: the bushing bores "aren't at all parallel" with their OD's, either: http://machines.pandela.net/sasgen_winch_overhaul/photos/photo48.html and http://machines.pandela.net/sasgen_winch_overhaul/photos/photo51.html
looks like to achieve any sort of better situation with the bushings, since they're -so- thin at the small end OD and since their bores aren't parallel with their OD's, I'd either need to 'align bore' the frame to accept some 'semi-standard' bushings *or* "pour the frame solid" (with either bronze or babbitt) then drill and 'align bore' the poured-in-place bearing materials. jeeze. either way it's "quite the big headache" time.
my latest idea, *VERY* non-standard: hacksaw cut the OD of the bushings parallel with their bores, hose clamp them "near tight shut" around their correct shafts, silver-solder the hacksaw-cut path shut 'locking in that shaft to bushing clearance relationship', then epoxy the bushings into their mating frame bores (while the shafts are in them, to "keep things aligned", greased slightly). ps - I have 'near tons' of spare epoxy. I'd rather use metal, though...
and to pour babbitt or bronze in those bearing bores, I'd need to pre-heat the frame (and shafts etc) up to about 5 or 600 degrees or so. just "throw the whole deal into a pretty hot open fire", jerk it on out of the fire, then be REAL quick about pouring the bearings? or what?
I'm still *WIDE* open to other interesting and better ideas on this 'headachey' one guys :-)
thanks again,
toolie
ps-I removed and 'position labeled' all four bushings so they can go back into their original bores. but I still haven't tried 'interchanging' the bearings removed, to see if any of 'em will fit into 'other' bores in the frame, and if so how close a FIT do they have TO those 'not their own' bores....my guess is, though, they're probably not uniform.
- - replies by e-mail, if any, please remove the weirdstuff from my address before you click 'send' - thanks :-) - -
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On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:51:04 -0400, dave
<interesting stuff and picture urls snipped>

=========Looks like cost reduction was running wild the day this was designed. No machine holes, etc.
I would consider "slicking" up the shaft in a lathe and polishing the bearing surfaces, putting everthing back together, and shimming/locating the shaft in as good alignment as you can, and injecting turcite or moglice between the bearings and the shaft. More than likely this will be better than new. Be sure to paint/spray the shaft with release agent and degrease the bearings.
You may need to stand the wench on end like you were babbiting the solid housing bearings.
click on http://www.moglice.com/newsite/pages/wrotethebook.html http://www.practicalmachinist.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f0;t0626;p=0 http://www.moglice.com/newsite/pages/lowfriction.html http://diamant.ph/en/referenzen/details/all http://diamant.ph/en/produkte / http://moglice.de/ http://www.thomasnet.com/profile/10061117/devitt-machinery-co-inc.html
these are just examples google on <moglice OR turcite OR garlock putty> for 12.7K hits
Unka' George [George McDuffee] ===========Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains.
Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), U.S. president. Letter, 17 March 1814.
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Fill each bearing with Babbit, drill small well-centered hole, reinstall and enlarge holes in steps with long aircraft drills available from HD, alternating direction. The tricky part is aiming each new drill directly at the hole in the other bearing. You could get drills with 1/4" shanks and an extension shaft so the smaller bore on one end guides the larger drill at the other end.
Once you have the holes aligned, put each bearing in a lathe with the drill bit in it and adjust it so the bit shank runs true, then bore to the size of the actual shaft.
jw
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