OT disgusted with all presidential candidates

On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 19:21:01 -0500, Ignoramus6359


You, sir, _must_ be blind or totally in denial. Obama continues to tear this country down and belittle it in the eyes of every other country in the world. Wake up, Ig! You're smarter than that.

Yes, everyone on every side, all bought and paid for. <sigh> I have voted in every single election available to me since turning 18. It gets harder and harder to do so every year, given the ghastly asses turning themselves out to be elected. Ross Perot could have turned this country around, back to its roots. We almost did that in 1992... <sigh>
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It takes as much energy to wish as to plan.
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I am convinced that $15 minimum wage is a disaster for cities that adopt them, because it will decimate low income communities through unemployment and crime.
I am very interested in what happend to Los Angeles a few years after their new minimum wage goes into effect.
Generally, robots will replace low income people anywhere, but not as fast as where a high minimum wage is adopted.
After all, a robot can flip burgers pretty well!
i
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On Sat, 06 Jun 2015 18:01:17 -0500, Ignoramus26399

If a robot can flip burgers, it won't make a damned bit of difference what humans are making in wages. They're done, whether it's in five years or five years and six months.
Nothing, absolutely nothing, will stop automation. And what wages are being paid has nothing to do with it. The technology has it's own pace.
--
Ed Huntress

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The difference is much greater, but in the end, yes, no one needs people flipping burgers and complaining about stuff.
Who will buy those burgers is a completely irrelevant question. The society will find the answer.

While it is true, generally even in the medium run you will see employment decimated.
i
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On Sat, 06 Jun 2015 20:00:28 -0500, Ignoramus26399

</snip> Be reminded that one company's employees are another company's customers.
--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
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People will be replaced with machines regardless of changes in demand.
i
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wrote:

Truth! And the witless "board changers" they're turning out nowadays are going to do nothing but run up the cost of a mechanized burger.

People complain to me all the time that they hate paying my prices for weeding, weedeating, mowing (things I don't do) because they can't find a single teenager willing to do it. One of the guys I hired through the temp agencies to help me set up some fences now has his own odd jobs company, and he's thriving. Teens don't seem to have he willingness to do what needs to be done to get along in this world. They have no concept of moving up the ladder a rung at a time. "I'm CEO or I'm not coming to work for you!" How does one get a work ethic when they start without ethics? Parents aren't instilling that into kids today, at least not from my perspective. Grandparents scold their kids and grandkids about it all the time. 'Tis sad, indeed.

I think the fast food restaurants found that the older homeless adults made for much better employees than the flaky, no-show teens ever did.

Teens are too busy blowing their way too large allowances on $400 Nikes, video games, and loud exhausts/window tinting for their Accords.
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Worry is a misuse of imagination.
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On Sunday, June 7, 2015 at 9:01:27 AM UTC-4, Larry Jaques wrote:

What area do you live in Larry? I haven't noticed the teenagers here in NC with this attitude. Neither of my sons had such either. As teens, one work ed in construction and the other a diesel mechanic's helper. Then, there's the other side of the coin. When I was 14, I started working for brick lay ers as a hod carrier. It was very hard manual labor working with heavy load s that a 14 yr. old had no business doing. It did damage. I'm convinced it' s what has caused many of the problems with worn out shoulders and other jo int problems now at 65. The teenagers in this area appear to me to be willi ng to do just about any type of work. Hopefully, OSHA has put a stop to wh at I was stupid enough to take on. I made sure the son in construction wasn 't carrying hod.
Garrett Fulton
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On Sun, 7 Jun 2015 06:57:19 -0700 (PDT), Garrett Fulton

I live in Southern Oregon, Grants Pass. I've only seen two sets of teen boys who did yard work. One pair were neighbor's boys, the others are the sons of one of my temp workers, who are now working with him. I never see "work wanted" by teens in the paper, either, and those are -free- to kids 18 and younger! I ask parents if their kids do yard work for their spending money and every single one I have asked has looked at me like I have 3 eyes. Either the kids won't be caught dead doing it, or the parents don't think their kids should be doing it. I seldom get an answer as to which it is. Very odd.

Garrett, when were your kids teens? 20+ years ago? I think work was still acceptable to teens back then. I have no idea what's going on in their minds now.
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On Sunday, June 7, 2015 at 7:09:53 PM UTC-4, Larry Jaques wrote:

s
NC with this attitude. Neither of my sons had such either.

elper. Then, there's the other side of the coin. When I was 14, I started working for brick layers as a hod carrier. It was very hard manual labor wo rking with heavy loads that a 14 yr. old had no business doing. It did dama ge. I'm convinced it's what has caused many of the problems with worn out s houlders and other joint problems now at 65. The teenagers in this area app ear to me to be willing to do just about any type of work. Hopefully, OSHA has put a stop to what I was stupid enough to take on. I made sure the son in construction wasn't carrying hod.

One of my sons is 31, the other 30. So, ~11-15 yrs. ago. I just had my kit chen remodeled by the son of the contractor. He was 20, and the 3 others wo rking for him were teens. They all did a fine job of it. Sober, on time and good work. It might have something to do with disposable income of the par ents in OR versus NC. I'm sure there's a fair number of deadbeat useless te ens here too, but I honestly haven't seen it much.
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On Sun, 07 Jun 2015 16:09:50 -0700, Larry Jaques

Gee, and I thought I was the Lone Ranger.
I never "gave" my three kids anything. they all had "jobs" around the house and got paid on Friday night. Interestingly my daughter, the youngest, was the most frugal. She worried about her brothers stealing her salary and I suggested that she let her mother hold it and she wondered if her mother might spend it so I suggested that she have a notebook to keep track of what she "had in the bank" and she complained that she couldn't add and subtract and I said, "learn how". I had the only 5 year old accountant on the street :-)

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cheers,

John B.
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On 6/7/2015 9:01 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Yep! The only thing that will help today's and tomorrow's society is some kind of reset. the last couple of generations have no values. I'm glad I'm old!
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Tom Gardner wrote:

So is the planet Earth! ;-)
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so, you do not want to be young and stupid?
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wrote:

We may have trouble at the Old Folk's Home, though. No workers, "uneddicated" doctors and nurses and program directors, etc.
--
Worry is a misuse of imagination.
-- Dan Zadra
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Ed Huntress wrote:

Already being tested and adopted in some places. When you look at it burgers, tacos, pizza, are all easy to deal with in automation. Added benefits are consistency of product and appearance. Both of which help with the bottom line.
One company is installing fully automated pizza vending machines, that make the dough from scratch and add whichever toppings you want from a touch screen menu. Go to many large cities and other countries and they have entire convenience areas that are vending machines, many with no real limits on what is sold.
A lot of folks slam Wal~Mart as being a bad retailer. Take a look past the stores at the warehousing and you will find that they employ a LOT of people to do a job that could easily be automated. It will be interesting with all the new costs and taxes that have been passed but haven't hit yet, what it will do to that system. Especially when those are not minimum wage positions.
--
Steve W.

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wrote:

First, taxes: In the year 2000, "Tax Freedom Day" (the date in a year at which the average worker is no longer working for the government) was 120 days into the year. In 2014, it was 110 days into the year. So taxes actually have come down, not up, and they bounce around with the state of the economy. This data is from the anti-tax Tax Foundation, not from the government itself. They used to tout how Tax Freedom Day was getting longer into the year, year after year. Now they bury it in their back pages.
As for the "ease" of Wal-Mart automating their warehouses: They are frequently cited in logistics and business articles as one of the most automated warehousing systems in the world, along with Amazon. The only thing that keeps them from getting rid of more people is that the warehouse-scale systems are not yet flexible enough to deal with their constantly changing inventory and still provide one-day deliveries. But it's coming, and wages will have nothing at all to do with it.
If you would like to see a graph of productivity (the product of automation) versus wages over time, I'll put it together for you. But I can tell you the bottom line: Automation keeps going up, while wages are flat. There is no connection between the two. (In manufacturing, productivity keeps going up, output keeps going up with it, and employment keeps going down. The rest of the economy will catch up to that trend.)
The implementation of automation, both the physical and the IT varieties, is solely a product of the stage of technical development for automation itself. And, having been on the receiving end of that news for 40 years, I'll testify that it's advancing every month. The latest thing is the "collaborative" robot. They're like adding another person to your workforce, and they're getting cheaper.
Trying to hold it back by holding wages down is like trying to improve employment by having people work for free on Fridays. The degree to which you'd have to beggar people to accomplish it is extreme. And in the end, like John Henry driving rail spikes in competition with a steam-powered machine, you will lose.
--
Ed Huntress

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Ed Huntress wrote:

The thing is that WM (at least all 3 of the local warehouses) HAVE the automation already in the building BUT they do not run it full time.
Take one item, as an example, shoes. They have a fully automated line that dumps the shoes, sorts them, packs them into shoe boxes and palletizes them for storage in the warehouse. It can run 2 days and do more than the human workers do in 4 days. BUT half the time it is idle. They only start it up if a backlog occurs. Wal~Mart tells the company that makes the shoes that they don't want them boxed at the plant. Instead they make the shoes, pair them, tag them and toss them in a crate. On this end they sort & pack.
On the shipping side they have long racks where lift operators work on one side and break down packaging, load items in the racks and repeat until they clock out. On the other side of the rack a person scans a barcode, That lights up a series of lights in order and the person goes to each slot, pulls the item punches a button to kill the light and packs it in a box. The computer already knows the sizes of the boxes because they scan the code on the side before packing, it calculates which items fit in that box and only drops that amount.
I asked a couple of the warehouse managers about it. They told me that it was orders from Bentonville that the machinery was not the priority, the people were.
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wrote:

Uh...given Wal-Mart's history, including having the highest number of full-time employees who qualify for food stamps, I'll take that last statement with a fat grain of salt. <g>
The company does have an extremely efficient warehousing system, including the efficiency of the people-handling part, and they make use of every mechanical and IT trick to make them more efficient, from automatically guided fork lifts to radio-frequency ID (RFID).
And their size is huge. Their 300+ distribution centers have a floor area equivalent to 18% of the surface area of Manhatten. So they have thousands of warehouse employees.
But they also have one of the most advanced and thorough fully-automated warehousing systems in the world. And they're constantly adding to it.
--
Ed Huntress

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Ed Huntress wrote:

Considering that they are the largest non-governmental employer in the US that really isn't a surprise. And that the income levels needed for assistance have steadily risen to inflate the numbers it isn't surprising.

As I said the local warehouses do have the automation, they just don't use it a lot.
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