OT: Wheel Shimmy


The wife has finally given up on her car. She has this strange
philosophy not to listen to or trust me. As a side note my kid pulled
that on me last night about geometry and said yeap yeap I understand
and then called her friend to see how she did the problem. Anyhow, I
get to try to fix the car now.
It has been shimmying for awhile now through the steering wheel and
seems to be coming from the front left at somewhere over 60.
It is a 2006 Hyundai elantra with Bridgestne tires. There have been
two brand new sets put on the front and a brand new rim. I got a hold
of it once and rotated the tires and rolled them when they where
barely off the shop floor and seemed pretty round. At the 2nd set the
tire place said to have the front end aligned. So she has someone else
do that and forgot to tell them why. So, it still does the same thing
and she calls them back and one of the guys tells her that is all they
can do and to find someone else, well the owner of the company over
heard that and they picked the car up. They report back that none of
the tires are balanced, so they do that. Well it still has the
problem.
I told her not to buy a brand new rim, that can't possibly be the
problem. And now the tire place didn't balance, WTF. All I can think
of is that she bent the axle, someone didn't put the bearings together
right on a brake job (something funny about this car makes brake
places cringe that I've yet to understand), or both places are not
doing their job on purpose.
Well, I've got 10 times more important things to do than throw a big
city shit fit on these people. Which I should do, to both! Or go to a
different place and demand to watch.
I don't have a book on the car or tryed to take it apart to find out
what is so hard about this particular car's front end. The car is even
in my name and I've maybe drove it 20 miles. Also, I bought it brand
new, but it sat on the lot for a good year, so it is only 4 years old
so to speak.
Oh, and they made her pay for a second warranty for the tires when
they replaced them under warranty. What planet is this warranty from?
What should say to a new place to clear the problem? Maybe a dealer
thing 100 miles away? Could it just be her taking it in, in the 21st
century?
SW
Reply to
Sunworshipper
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Might want to go for a drive in a second vehicle and watch/look at her car while she is driving, experiencing the problem. I've followed vehicles down the road and noticed that they were crabbing, wheels bouncing, wobbling... and I seriously doubt the owners knew this. Other than the car had a funny problem :)
Reply to
Leon Fisk
The left front upper shock mount on my truck rusted off (it's hidden) and gave that symptom. I made a static balancer and balanced all four tires within about 5 grams, which fixed it, then noticed the real problem.
jsw
Reply to
Jim Wilkins
It's not how long you've owned it, it's how many miles(and potholes) it's endured. Could be a lot of things, you'd think the alignment place would have looked over the tie rod ends and ball joints FIRST, but since you weren't looking over their shoulders, you don't know. Shimmy could be a lot of things, bad bearings, worn tie rod ends, worn ball joints, loose lug nuts, bad suspension arm bonded bushings, bad steering gear mounts, any or all of the preceding. I've had troubles with all of them over the years. If you can't/won't do your own car work and aren't tooled up for ball joint/tie rod end replacements, the only thing you can do is find a trusted front-end mechanic and have them do a complete go over. Warning, some of this stuff is big-ticket if you have a commercial mechanic do it, parts are cheap in a lot of cases but labor isn't. My hourly rate is still cheaper than a repair shop's, so I end up doing most of my own repairs.
First really bad shimmy problem I had on the van was because the bonded rubber in the factory tie rod ends had worn out and the ball end was whacking the sides like a bell clapper. "Lifetime lubed" in this case meant lifetime of the tie rod end. No way to lube it anyway, because it never had lube in it to start with, just bonded rubber. Replacing tie rod ends in this case made the shimmy go away. Latest go-around was because the bottom ball joint had worn out on one side. HF ball joint press to the rescue. Estimate from the front-end mechanic was about $500 at his shop. The ball joint cost me around $20 from NAPA, HF press was around $40 with the coupon, took about 30 minutes to get it off and about 15 to get it back together. Then about $80 for an alignment, which I had to take somewhere to do, the rest was done in the driveway. Cheaper than replacing tires all the time!
As to the trust tissue, I've run into this, you need to start charging for advice. Certain people only think advice is good if they're charged for it, like from a doctor, lawyer, mechanic, etc. Doesn't mean it's *good* advice, just that they put more credence in somebody's opinion if they've paid for it. They probably also think that the "best" brand of anything is the one they pay the most for. The b-in-law's family is this way. So a double warranty is twice as good as only one.
Stan
Reply to
stans4
Off the top of my head, things which can cause wheel shimmy:
out of balance tire out of round tire tire with broken belt out of round wheel bent wheel, other out of balance brake disc * warped brake disc worn ball joint worn steering gear worn tie rod ends worn tie rod loose lower control arm worn shock or strut loose strut bolts improper toe-in setting. loose/worn wheel bearings loose/improperly installed front drive axle in hub bent axle
Most of those are checked when the car is on the rack for tires or alignment. Lots of times the problem will seem to be on the opposite side of the car, so check both.
*OOB brake discs are seldom tested until there is a really strange, persistent problem. Have them balance the wheels on the car. It's one of the few places which will catch OOB discs.
Let us know what the distant dealership finds out, will ya?
-- The United States of America is the greatest, the noblest and, in its original founding principles, the only moral country in the history of the world. -- Ayn Rand
Reply to
Larry Jaques
Sunworshipper wrote in rec.crafts.metalworking on Thu, 14 Apr 2011 14:37:47 -0500:
Don't those have a 10 yr./100k mi warranty?
Reply to
dan
Wow. Well, broken belt was once a problem and been through the bent wheel. Was questioning the wife, seems the brakes have never been touched. Guess I mixed it up with the other car that got creamed cause someone was texting through a red light. Maybe they changed the design so that all brake places will work on this one.
Not sure yet about the dealer, I'll see tomorrow if I can get something resolved nicely around close. Seems everybody knows everybody around here.
Thanks, at least I have a huge list instead of a couple of ideas.
SW
Reply to
Sunworshipper
Wheel unbalance usually occurs during a specific speed range. Shimmy is usually caused by worn out, loose, or damaged suspension components, including shocks and tires.
Reply to
Peter Divergilio
That's a problem.
I did a lot of front end work and they gave me a Hunter A111 4-wheel alignment machine to play with when I wrenched at the body shop.
One addition to the list: bad steering donut. The flexible coupling between the steering shaft and gear (on older vehicles) can weaken and cause a shimmy, especially if there is some steering gear wear.
-- The United States of America is the greatest, the noblest and, in its original founding principles, the only moral country in the history of the world. -- Ayn Rand
Reply to
Larry Jaques
Easy check is move tires front to back. If it wags the tail instead of shaking the wheel, it's a bad tire.
If the shake goes away completely it's the tire,
Reply to
clare
Sounds like you are correct. Too new for worn out in multiple places shimmy, seems to still be there a tad after the 3rd place today. Just at the perfect driving speed of 62 mph and at the rear now, but does just fine on up to 95.
The guy said one is a little out of round and something with the sidewall of another, haven't looked it is cold out. At least it is better for $35. Beginning to think it is the tires. The original place said they would look up the video to see if they were balanced. What ever. Probably devise an idle pulley and dial indicator and find out and then flat out tell them which one is junk.
She took it back out, maybe it will be ok till it is warm enough to lay on concrete.
SW
Reply to
Sunworshipper
Yeah. Introductions are weird cause most already know me by name and I'm just meeting them. I'm use to at least over a million people in one place and hardly anyone knows who I am.
So, you've been on the other side. I did an alignment on my '47 pickup with a tape measure. I was wondering how you came up with a concise list so fast. I really did like trouble shoot pools and spas, I could just walk in the back yard and notice three things wrong with it before the customer told me what I really was there for. Then you run into the incompetent who act like they know what's going on.
I need to relax after this day. That manager was starting to really piss me off. Even the mexican place that charged $5 a tire did a better job. His line was that he gave my wife a killer deal on the second warranty tires and I told him that I'm suppose to be gratefully for this mess. And what his transaction with the wife had to do with the problem.
Picked up fire bricks and refractory cement at least today. Got a free barrel the right size and a source of free waist oil yesterday. Matter of fact the wife just called, 'What's with the bricks in my trunk???' LOL 'How much where those?' What are they for?'
SW
Reply to
Sunworshipper
This morning she said it drove like before all this started. The tire place said they also turned one of the tires to a different position on the rim and balanced them for 100 mph like I always ask. Looks like I found a tire place that acts like one. Thanks guys.
SW
Reply to
Sunworshipper
Yes I understand the safety implications, but they couldn't or wouldn't correct the problem and until I can prove that certain tires are beyond specifications I'm going to leave it be for now. They didn't blow up at 95 mph and weaving between two lane, should hold up for a chick driver.
I just had another incompetent problem last week with paint not being the right color and had to redo a tongue and grove 10' high ceiling. Last couple of years it seems that is all I do is redoing stuff over and over. Its getting to the point of madness and almost acceptability.
SW
Reply to
Sunworshipper
That means two things, SW:
First, if the tire had to be rotated on the rim, both the tire and rim had imbalances. Not good.
The second problem was one of dynamic balance. The idiots at the other places couldn't even balance a tire. Frustrating, eh?
Static balance, where the tire and wheel are balanced on a cone, ensures that one area of the tire and wheel isn't heavier than another. Bad static imbalance causes wheel hop.
Dynamic balance ensures that the inside face isn't heavier than the outside face of the tire and rim. Bad dynamic imbalance causes the rim and tire to flutter. It also is more noticeable in the steering wheel.
Be sure to _bill_ the other places if they charged you anything for the trouble they caused you. And if they balk, mention the local newspaper, whose underworked staff is is just -dying- for horror stories about bad and incompetent auto repair places. ;)
-- Threee days before Tucson, Howard Dean explained that the tea party movement is "the last gasp of the generation that has trouble with diversity." Rising to the challenge of lowering his reputation and the tone of public discourse, Dean smeared tea partiers as racists: They oppose Obama's agenda, Obama is African-American, ergo...
Let us hope that Dean is the last gasp of the generation of liberals whose default position in any argument is to indict opponents as racists. This McCarthyism of the left -- devoid of intellectual content, unsupported by data -- is a mental tic, not an idea but a tactic for avoiding engagement with ideas. It expresses limitless contempt for the American people, who have reciprocated by reducing liberalism to its current characteristics of electoral weakness and bad sociology. --George Will 14 JAN 2011 Article titled "Tragedies often spark plenty of analysis"
Reply to
Larry Jaques

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