Sandbags in the bed of a pickup truck

But I bet she died with a smile on her face....

Jeff

-- Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"If you can keep smiling when things go wrong, you've thought of someone to place the blame on."

Well there it is. Sometimes guns almost *do* kill people.

Most folks don't have a feel for the forces involved in even a minor car crash. A broken sternum from a seat belt is a small price to pay.

Jim

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I rebuilt a '47 Chevy PU in northern Wis. and put a flat bed on it. As soon as it snowed the truck wouldn't even move down the road without weight on the back. I could be wrong , but I would think the best option would be to put the front wheels on a scale and add weight back by the bumper until the front and back weight the same. Maybe just a bit more up front. Then get something like a railroad track of the same weight and make up two things like cranking up the spare under the truck just infront of the back bumper. And leave it there winter and summer , then you can drop it at home when you are going to pick something up that is heavy. Bolt it also if your worried about a chain letting go. Or cut holes in the rail and double chain it to the frame. That's what I would have done , but I left in Jan. with a full load going south.

I had a '57 Fargo Custom Express - short narrow box pickup with a big flathead six (264 iirc) and 3 speed standard. When it rained I could hardly get out of my apartment parking lot. With the box off, while doing repairs, it was hard enough on dry pavement. The steering was quite heavy. I changed jobs and needed to move my tool box - roll cab and all. I strapped it to the tailgate to keep it from moving, and the steering was so light I could turn the wheels with 2 fingers - a significant change in front end loading - with over 600 lb behind the axle.

I can't help much with anecdotal evidence regarding sandbags in accidents.

I've toyed with the idea of loading 500 lbs of loose gravel in the bed every fall (covered with a sheet of plywood, maybe) and then, come spring, use the gravel to fill in the inevitable holes and ruts in the drive.

Currently, I'm using 450 lbs of sandbags, relatively unsecured. They're laid against the front of the bed and don't seem to move, but now you've got me wondering. R, Tom Q.

you see the drivers "warming up the rubber", right? there is a reason, adhesion is the word, and the chemistry involved. what works on a dragstip is not worth spit in the snow or sand as many folks continue to learn from experience. --Loren

Last year I had a 1,571# electric forklift battery in the back of my truck, a Chev. 1 ton crew cab dual rear wheel pickup. That gave me excelent traction and never shifted in the bed all winter with only four cargo straps holding it.

This winter, or what we've had so far, I was sliding around every corner until I filled the bed with 34 4x8x16 solid concrete blocks for about

While there may be some potential danger with the blocks in the back, I'm fairly certain the risk is higher without the blocks. A crew cab dually pickup is so front heavy without cargo that it is all but impossible to avoid sliding the rear when going around curves on snowy roads, even when your going less than 20 MPH.

Pete C.

Tom Quackenbush wrote:

I don't think I'd be too concerned about it if it were laying against the front of the bed like you said. An impact will slow it at the same rate as the rest of the vehicle. It isn't very often someone actually slams into a solid brick wall. If that did happen, anything in the bed of the truck would probably be inconsequential. All of the people I know that actually did hit a "brick wall" died for so many other reasons that a sandbag might have just made it less painful.

It is when the sandbags are a few feet behind the cab that it becomes dangerous. The vehicle slows at one rate, but the sandbags carried by momentum continue on their path until they collide with the cab. That is an entirely different story, because that impact is instantaneous.

I followed a pickup one day that was carrying a mig welder. It was a big 220V type welder, on a cart, with a big gas cylinder. It wasn't strapped down. He had just pulled out of his lot, and came up to a stop light when I came up behind him. When the light turned green, he took off. The welder rolled to the tailgate, and almost flipped out of the truck. I ducked for cover, because the regulator was attached to the tank.

The guy hit the brakes hard. Of course, the welder moved forward, and slammed into the cab. Luckily this all happened in about 100 feet, and the only damage was a dented top edge of the cab that I could see. No broken glass. But his sphincter was sure puckering.

Dave

I appreciate the sentiment. Intuitively, the free flying sandbags seem to be more dangerous, but isn't the momentum of both sandbags the same? Disregarding elevation of said sandbags, which could certainly be relevant (glass vs. steel).

R, Tom Q.

It doesn't do much for braking - that is mostly done by the front wheels, which is why its a good idea to have snow tires on all 4 wheels even on a 2WD PU truck.

I don't think acceleration is the issue - driving in snow the problem is often having enough traction to get moving at all - for slow changes in velocity the effect of the increase in inertia is negligible compared to the driving improvement that results from an increase in tractive effort. Tractive effort is some coefficient times the weight on the tire. I can testify from the days of my youth growing up in Michigan that having a few hundred pounds of sand in the back of a pickup truck does make a noticeable difference.

Fitch

All good and well. But why would you want to drive around with 500 pounds of sand in your truck bed? Just curious.

Abrasha

Agree. I can't explain the physics but I know it helps.

Jim (need more sand for this winter...)

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On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:54:21 GMT, "Leo Lichtman" wrote something ......and in reply I say!:

Well you'd have to tie her in like the sandbags..safety you know

Imagine a _world_ where Nature's lights are obscured by man's. There would be nowhere to go. Or wait a while. Then you won't have to imagine.

I used to put cinder blocks in the back of my S-10 PU for weight until one came through the rear window and landed between myself and a buddy. The cinder blocks came out and Blizzak snow tires went on. Even without weight I was able to safely accelerate, decelerate and manuevuer almost like there was no snow or ice. I used to enjoy watching the wheels spin on a 4WD when I drove past.

Andy

If you'll permit me to steer this discussion to machine tools, all this talk about inertia, etc. brings to mind one of my usual dilemmas when selling machinery. What do you do when someone shows up with a pickup truck and asks you to load something like a Bridgeport? There simply are no strong enough tie down points to safely hold that load in a pickup. When I point this out,the usual answer is "I'll drive carefully!" My usual response is "It's not you I'm worried about!" Meaning, I know you'll be careful, it's the other morons out on the roads who may trip you up. I usually try to insure that they strap to the frame somehow. It's always a nail biting experience until I hear that they made it safely home.

Regards, Dave (who likes flatbed trailers for machinery moving)

Probably the best way to get a feel for this is to exaggerate it.

If I duct taped a baseball to the rear glass, drove down the street at 100mph and slammed on the brakes, the glass won't break.

However, if the truck was stopped, and I threw the baseball at the rear glass, it probably will break. (which imitates a baseball not being secured to the bed, and moving forward at 100mph relative to the truck if I slammed on the brakes)

The difference being the amount of time it took to stop the baseball.

Hitting the brakes takes more time to slow the baseball, and spreads the energy dissipation out over much more time.

The same applies to a sandbag going through steel.

Dave

I forget that some people here have never driven in snow.

Dave

Big snip

I've also wondered the same thing. I think that it must have to do with the way rubber conforms to the irregularities in the pavement. Therefore, the connection to the pavement is like a lot of little mechanical "hooks" between tire and the surface.

If this is indeed the way it is, then it is easy to understand. Think of the tire/pavement as acting like Velcro. The bigger the piece of Velcro, the more secure the connection.

Orrin

You're right, of course. I wasn't taking into account the time factor.

R, Tom Q.