Soldering help

A pencil tip soldering iron is barely adequate for 18 gauge wire. For starter wires the correct crimps and eyelets are the way to go. If you can't find the right cables pre-made, try a battery distributor or truck-body shop, they can crimp the proper ends on heavier wire for you. I just bought a ground strap for my skid steer, last season I was screwing around with replacing terminals in the snow, which I finally realized was a waste of time.

How many watts is it? What do you mean "starter wire"- you're just working with AWG16 or whatever control wires, right?

BTW, I hope you're using electronic solder (preferably 63/37 SnPb alloy with an activated rosin flux.

If you're trying to use 50/50 plumber's solder, it's not going to work very well, and the acid flux they use destroys electrical connections. If so, clean everything off really well and start again with the right solder.

I think the commercial installers usually use crimp joints only. You can get overpriced crappily made crimp joiners and lugs at Rat shack, as I did last year at this time when I wanted to install a new CD/MP3 player in my car. ;-)

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

Don't solder underhood connections- either the solder joint will fail, or the insulation (tape) will. Use good quality crimp connectors- your local parts jobber will have them- and don't cheap out on the crimping tool. I've repaired a few electrical nightmares because the installer used cheap connectors or his crimping tool did not fully pinch the connector.

NAPA Belden connectors aren't bad and they used to sell a good crimping tool.

-Carl

And if you MUST solder, make sure you have a hot heavy iron to do the job QUICKLY. You do not want to heat the wire "upstream" of the joint , wicking solder into the cable, because vibration will then cause the wire to fracture. Any soldered terminal must be supported - at the very least a sleave of heat-shrink tubing extending half an inch or so past the joint. I often crimp, then solder the end of the cable into the terminal end (not the cable end of the terminal) with a good hot iron and resin core solder. Done properly, no solder wicks past the crimp and the insulation does not get heated excessively.

For battery/starter cables I like a good, solid hex crimp - or at minimum a good solid staked connection - but have been known to solder on occaision. Again, a hot heavy iron (or a torch) is required to get the joint hot enough before the heat runs up the cable.

Cark - may I respectfully disagree - don't solder if you don't know how, that seems OK, but "don't solder underhood connections" is not correct - most cars from the teens to now have soldered underhood connections somewhere, though with the environmental problems of lead you are seeing less solder in the very newest cars. There is nothing wrong with a properly done solder splice covered with heat shrink, I have never had one fail. And, yes, you can make inproper crimp connections, I've seen plenty of them - in fact it's easier to make a bad crimp connection than a bad solder connection because it's much harder to inspect a crimp. Bill

to contact me, do not reply to this message, instead correct this address and use it

will iam_ b_ No ble at msn daught com

Most people don't know how to solder and insulate wires for an extreme environment such as the underhood area of a car. Soldering -like welding- is a skill that has to be learned, whereas crimping is a no-brainer. Clare has the right of it and I also solder terminal-end crimp connectors (especially those in high heat or vibration areas). I never solder butt splices. Heat shrink tubing is good stuff, but it can't correct a poor solder joint- I've seen stray strands sticking out of shrink tubing- that will cause all sorts of flaky failures.

I disagree- a good crimp connection can be tested by simply tugging on it- if it's mechanically strong, it'll be OK electrically. A soldered pair of wires can hide all kinds of problems and yet look good.

The OP is attempting to solder-connect the wires from a remote-start kit into the vehicle wiring harness- undoubtedly tapping into critical circuits. He is attempting to do this using a little pencil iron, which is most definitely the wrong tool for the job. I believe his chance for success is much better with crimps.

-Carl

We all know, stryped.

Are you sure that you are holding the iron on the right side?

What scale is it?

Nick

a pencil iron for starter wires? Aint going to happen.

Get a nice big Weller 250 watt gun, remove the loop tip, hold the two prongs against the wire joint and pull the trigger all the way back.

Apply solder when ready.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

Also, your soldering iron isn't big enough for the job. It is intended for light electronics work. It takes more wattage, or a propane torch to get battery cables hot enough. Bugs

Crimping is *not* a no-brainer. I have seen many many bad crimp connections. Successful crimping requires the brains to use a quality crimping tool, adjust it properly, prep the wires properly, insert the wires properly and finally inspect the resulting connection properly.

The big issue under hood is really moisture, and corrosive moisture at that. Whether the connection is crimped, soldered or crimped and soldered, it needs to be environmentally sealed to protect it from corrosion.

For under hood use, the version of heat shrink with the meltable sealer liner is good stuff.

Bill is correct, just because you can test a crimp connection to be mechanically strong does not insure that it is electrically good or will be reliable. If the wires were not prepped properly you can get a nice mechanically strong crimp over the wires insulation and have a very poor electrical connection that can quickly become intermittent.

A soldered connection can be quite readily inspected *if* you know what you are looking for. A good soldered connection should have a relatively shiny surface, have no sharp strands of wire sticking out, show an even "wetting" flow on the wires at the periphery of the solder and show minimal wicking of the solder past the immediate connection area and little or no melting of the wires insulation.

Two more issues with your last comments.

First is that nearly all crimp type connectors are not taps. Tapping with crimp type connectors will generally require cutting the existing wire and having multiple wires in a single crimp opening. Both of these conditions can produce problems, though certainly less than those hideous IDC type tap connectors.

The second issue is your comment about the pencil iron which is misleading. It does seem that the OP is trying to use an under powered pencil iron which will not work well for the application, however this is not true of all pencil irons. A quality high wattage, temperature controlled pencil iron such as one of the Weller units will have more than enough capacity for soldering the 18-12 gauge wires likely to be encountered in this application.

Pete C.

That's the right tip for stryped! "Solder the cable under the dash-board with a propane torch." ;-)))

Nick

Have a look at the photos here:

See the 'T' taps, the crimp-on wire caps, and the usual insulated spade connectors. Note that you want to have 'hot' wires on insulated connectors if you go with pluggable connectors so that a loose wire doesn't short to ground and blow a fuse or circuit breaker.

BTW, I don't have any knowledge of this particular supplier.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

Try keeping the tip of your soldering iron coated with fresh solder. This helps transfer the heat to the wires.

insulated

Many manufacturers of remote starters (and the people who install them) specifically warn against using insulation displacement connectors. The suggested method for a T tap is to cut the insulation away , separate the wire strand in the middle, insert the second wire, wrap around the wire being tapped and then itself, and tape then tie wrap.

I guess some installers do solder, I suspect the majority don't.

No, you can't. The common PFE insulation is too slippery for a crimp connector to grip- a good, strong tug and the wire will slip out.

A skill that takes time to develop and has to be learned by example. Soldering is a skill- I took a half semester course in it (patterned after the US Army course- great stuff) and it's easy to make OK solder joints, but tougher to make really good ones.

See, this is why I left RCM- too many posters who don't read things thoroughly before responding. Clare and I have both earned our living repairing cars- I have (and I'm certain Clare has) made thousands of crimp connections- I've worn out at least ten crimpers- and each of those crimps was critical. Too many failures and its good-bye employment. I never had one fail after it left the shop (had a few fail the tug test- that's why I did it).

My comments on the soldering iron stands- it is too small for the job. Without sounding like a smartass, judging by his tool choice the OP doesn't know a lot about soldering the heavier gauge wires used in automotive service. *His* chance for success is much better with crimps- he probably lacks the skill/experience to successfully solder and QC such connections.

Have you looked under the dashboard of a 1996 Chevy pickup? We have a similar model at work and it's a real rats nest- not an ideal soldering environment if only because the chances for damaging other parts of the harness with the hot iron.

-Carl

There are other insulation types that are quite soft which a crimp connector will readily grip.

Indeed, I didn't say that it didn't. I did say and still do say that good crimp connections are not a no-brainer either.

How does that address the issues of cutting the wire to be "tapped" or the need to have more than one wire in a single crimp opening or an additional connector? I've not seen any three way crimp connectors other than one that consists of three ring terminals riveted together. Unless you order a box of those obscure connectors you either have a barrel type connector with one wire in one end and two in the other, which will most likely put one end outside of it's specified gauge range, or you will have to insert a connector adding at least one potential problem mating point given the prevalence of low grade 1/4" QC connectors with abysmal contact pressure.

I agree with the OPs likelihood of success, but disagree on the soldering iron. My Weller soldering station with the 24V 48W temperature controlled "pencil iron" is more than capable of soldering 12 ga wires.

1996 Chevy pickup, no, 1997 Chevy pickup, yes many times. I expect that I'd have better success with my soldering iron given the fact that it requires far less operating clearance than a good crimp tool. 26+ years of soldering experience probably help as well.

Pete C.

"stryped" wrote: (clip) I cant get the wire hot enough to melt my solder. (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Your soldering "iron" is probably a little small for the job. Sometimes you can cheat a little by feeding solder into the contact area between the tip and the wire. As the solder melts, it improves the heat transfer to the wire, and eventually tins it. Be careful not to trust the joint unless you actually see the solder wet the surfaces you are joining. This is an area where beginners often make cold solder joints, which cause trouble later.

Some of you seem to think the OP is trying to solder his battery cable with a pencil iron. He's installing a remote starter switch, with connections under the dash, to the terminals on his ignition switch. It might not be easy for a beginner, but it's possible.

BTW, auto wiring at the switch will have eithr screw connectors, or spade connectors. Soldering may not be necessary at all. You can buy spade connectors with multiple terminals.