Somewhat related to metalworking

This is somewhat related to metalworking... And surely more related to it than most of the @#$%^ some of you keep posting.
Thank God for Agent and it's ignore function I've finally found a way to ignore most of those threads.
Now... That having been said, and the fact that I lost access for 2 months again and came back on a different newsreader only receiving minimal mention, I'd like to describe a scenario I had to quote today...
Ten 0.1562" holes drilled in thin material.
Each hole drilled by its own small drill (our 1000 series unit).
Each 1000 series unit spun and stroked by an air motor.
So far, no problem!
Challenge - The customer wants me to give him the option to start all the drills with a single start button. The air motors must kick in only on the downward stroke and must turn off when the drills are stroking home (note, not when they ARE home, when they are on their way home...)
However, the customer also wants the ability to turn off each and every drill individually. When a drill is off, the customer does not want the motor spinning.
Difficulty - The air motors suck up enough air that they can not be run off the same valve as the stroke of the drill is.
We figured it out, but figured you'all might enjoy the brain teaser in pneumatics logic.
Why is it metalworking related? Well, the 0.1562" holes, of course! They are being drilled in aluminum with zero collant. Thankfully, the material is 0.060" thick and the hole does not need to be burr free.
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some of you keep posting.

Individual electric 3 way valves. By allowing it to vent to air when turned off the spindle should stop much faster. Add a manual valve to each OR an individual electric switch. Switches are probably cheaper. Get fancy and wire up a control panel with an LED for each one that is turned on in the same array pattern as the air spindles. Don't know enough about your feed setup, but if this is something like banks of drills with each bank processing a single part then maybe you can have a simple mechanical interlink between banks that allows you to not even feed those that are not actually processing a part.
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The addition of spring activated solenoid valves and a PLC make this easier, that's for sure.
But see if you can solve it with pneumatic logic only...
If you do, I'll tell you about the more complex nine drill set-up we had a month ago and even show you photos. :)
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On Tue, 08 Oct 2013 17:01:37 -0400, "Joe \"Dufu\""

but...why would you?
Gunner
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On 9/10/2013 5:06 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Perhaps lower cost & simplicity, improved reliability & serviceability. Also only a single energy source connection.
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wrote:

Lower cost? Hardly. Hooking up all that pastic tubing takes time. Simplicity? ROFLMAO!!! Improved reliabiltity and serviceability?
Never worked on complicated pneumatic logic before..have you?
As for "single energy source connection...are we talking about that 10hp 3ph Ingersol Rand air compressor in the basement? Or simply plugging the plug into the wall?
"
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On 9/10/2013 6:51 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:

No I haven't - that obvious is it! :)
I would have thought once set up a purely pneumatic system with no electronics would be much more reliable.

I'd imagine most if not all workshops would have shop air plumbed throughout.
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wrote:

It has been my experience that fully pneumatic systems involving timing are not as reliable as modern electronics in the typical shop environment. The big problem is the need for dry, clean air. So often someone forgets to clean filters or lets water enter the system or some joker puts oil in the air thinking the system needed it. Tiny passages get clogged and so the timing gets messed up and the speeds of cylinder movements changes and so on. Modern electronics need no attention by well meaning machinists and so remain trouble free for decades. I have spent many hours cleaning and adjusting air logic controls on CNC machines. Eric
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On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 08:28:05 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

It is my experience - and I do a LOT of pneumatic controls - that Eric is 100% correct here regarding reliability.
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On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 08:28:05 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

As have I.
Which is why though I certainly respect them for what they are..and what they have done so well in the past...are now largely outdated technology better pushed aside as technology improves.
It was really good tech...but...there is now much better tech available and largely for cheaper prices.
Shrug
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On 11/10/2013 11:28 PM, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

Cheers Eric, that makes sense. I come from the electronics end of things so I see all the problems it entails.
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On 10/10/2013 9:21 PM, Glenn B wrote:

I would welcome you to take a tour of my bare bones shop. Garage sales decaying air hoses throughout, but anything better than that, I would have to wait for those morons at Lotto to pick the right numbers.
Six numbers. What is so hard about that? Or is it five? Or seven?
It sure would be fun, though, to have a wad of cash to throw at the problem, and a few grunts to do the work whilst I sampled the nectar of the Gods, and interviewed secretaries for new positions.
No pun intended.
Steve
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Steve, it takes little more cash to do it with small-volume pneumatics than to 'cobble it up' out of odds and ends.... IF your time is worth anything, at all.
And no; "connecting all that tubing" is not time-consuming. It takes almost zero time with push-to-connect fittings; just 'cut and stick'.
Most of what I do for actuators can be handled with either 5/32" or 1/4" tubing. A few large bin shakers or 'power' actuators take larger sizes.
Most of the fittings for either of the small sizes are about the same price, and pretty inexpensive compared to time.
Now, if time is all you have, then that's your resource.
Lloyd
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wrote:

??? You need air hoses? Ive probably got 500 feet of used but perfectly good US made air hoses Ive pulled when I shut down shops in the last few years.
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wrote:

You, and a few others 'round here horde this stuff. Friends share! :)
Seriosuly though, you guys who have all this surplus stuff also obviously have space! Here, and where I live are some of the most rural places in NJ where hot air balloons land on the lawns and fields and horses often break free and need chasing... And yet we still don't have nearly enough storage space for that kind of hording...er... Collection.
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On Tue, 15 Oct 2013 08:09:08 -0400, "Joe \"Dufu\""

I was offering up air hose.
I too am very limited on space. Ill clean it out..and fill it back up within a very short amount of time.
My front yard now has (4) sailboats on it. The biggest being almost 26 feet long. The next shortest...21 feet long, is nearing the end of its restoration. Ill finish painting the inside fo the cabin today and then there will only be a couple minor things to do and I can probably sail it this weekend.
Id love to have a full acre of fenced (dogs) land. Life would be eversomuch simpler
Gunner
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On 10/15/2013 2:26 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:

If I hit the Lotto I'll buy out your neighbors' land for you so you can hoard more stuff! I like hoarding stuff too, it all too often comes in handy!
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But only if you know where it is.
i
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On Tue, 15 Oct 2013 18:38:04 -0500, Ignoramus22049

Specificly..or generally...?
(Grin)
Gunner

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both
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