Using a welder for electroplating

Lead isn't a good anode, but lead peroxide is. It's like a car battery, you really need to form the coating rather than just dump in bare metal and hope. A convenient way is just to lift plates out of an old battery.

The resultant solution will be full of lead (and maybe other more-noxious heavy metals). Dispose of it as for battery waste. In theory it's possible to avoid the lead going into solution, but not in practice.

There's a similar problem if you use stainless steel anodes (as I do). However this is _not_ hexavalent chrome (the really nasty stuff) and you can avoid much of the problem by not storing the anodes in the tank when not in use.

This is usually a symptom of excess voltage, or excess currrent density in some areas. This puts too much energy into electrolytic gas generation, rather than de-rusting. It's just wasted energy.

For big pieces, where I can really control the current density by using big plate anodes, then I'd rather run at about 8V or even 5V (5V is a bit low, but big PSUs are conveniently available) Anything over 12V is definitely too high - if you have to use these voltages to get a decent current, then look at providing better anode area or checking the electrolyte concentration.

I don't think this process can be used to remove "significant" rust in under a day. If you try to push it too hard, the chemistry gets bored and goes off into other areas instead.

All "electro-plating" processes are extremely sensitive to current density and to local variations from the ideal current density. Read a commercial handbook for advice here - industrial plating goes to a lot of trouble with magic additives to allow higher currents (and thus higher deposition rates) For the rest of us it's easier just to keep the current down and be more patient.

Reply to
Andy Dingley
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That's more like "two yards of thin cable" rather than "a copper bar".

2m of 10mm^2 cable, and copper has a resistivity of 2e-8/m is a resistance of about 4m ohms With 2V across it is a power of 1kW, which is certainly practical for a welder.
Reply to
Andy Dingley

You are 100% right. There is enough resistance to make the voltage at terminals about 2 volts. Even the copper strip that I used warmed up considerably.

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Reply to
Ignoramus24428

The reason why I am so interested is that I have some lead sheet leftovers that I could use as anodes.

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Reply to
Ignoramus24428

Of course you will. And for 200A current, that's about 8kW of power and a voltage of 40mV (for a nominal "copper bar" shorting link of

0.0002ohms). To develop 2V across this sort of resistance needs 10kA, not 200A - just how powerful a welder are we talking about here?.

You just can't get 2V across a "copper bar" - it would melt almost instantly.

Nope, my experience is all with Ohm's law. Good on electrons, bad on bogons.

Reply to
Andy Dingley

If he's going by the volt meter on the welder it most likely represents the voltage across not only the copper bar, but also the welding leads.

Pete C.

Reply to
Pete C.

Yes, plus the bar itself would be properly called a copper strip.

In any case, as I said, we became sidetracked.

I know that my welder is a constant current welder. I am not sure why we are arguing over this.

The original question was, is a constant current welder such as my

100% duty cycle cybertig, capable and usable for slectrolytic rust removal.

The answer from Don Foreman indicates, sensibly, that the answer is yes. I also suspected so and am now convinced that it is the case.

And yes, my welder is able to supply as little voltage as necessary, when faced with low resistance.

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Reply to
Ignoramus24428

Sorry, this is annoying me.

You just can't get 2V across any short length of copper, of any thickness - it would melt almost instantly.

Reply to
Andy Dingley

I didn't mention that I was actually processing two batches of rebar a day. The current density was much higher than ideal, but I was in a hurry.

Next time I'll buy new rebar and scrap the rusty stuff :-)

Mark Rand RTFM

Reply to
Mark Rand

replying to Grant Erwin, S G wrote: carbon crucible blocks work better, no sludge

Reply to
S G

replying to Don Foreman, S G wrote: A friend uses 1000amp 6volt rectifier but that unit costs $7500 bucks, 3 phase

280v
Reply to
S G

replying to Andy Dingley, S G wrote: for a car body like a mustang use 6v 1000amp for 2 hours , start the solution off hot, ue carbon/graphite blocks to avoid making sludge

Reply to
S G

replying to Grant Erwin, S G wrote: carbon crucible blocks work better, no sludge

Reply to
S G

replying to Don Foreman, S G wrote: A friend uses 1000amp 6volt rectifier but that unit costs $7500 bucks, 3 phase

280v
Reply to
S G

replying to Andy Dingley, S G wrote: for a car body like a mustang use 6v 1000amp for 2 hours , start the solution off hot, ue carbon/graphite blocks to avoid making sludge

Reply to
S G

Load vs temperature rise testing of the variable power supply I built from a 50A, 20% duty cycle arc welder transformer and a variac showed that the output current should be limited to around 20A continuous or

25A for 1/2 hour. This corresponds to a derating to 20% of the squares of the currents, ideally 22.36A.

P = I^2 * R, where R is the copper winding resistance.

Reply to
Jim Wilkins

Arc welding transformers have a fairly high internal impedance to cheaply provide high no-load voltage to start the arc and current limiting when welding, especially when the electrode sticks. The tradeoff is low efficiency. This means that the voltage drops significantly as load current increases, and conversely the voltage rises if the load's current demand decreases, as when a battery nears full charge.

This voltage and current regulator is a good match to the 50A transformer:

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The rectified transformer output is almost useless and high enough to be considered dangerous without either the variac or DPS5020 to control the voltage.
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"OSHA considers all voltages of 50 volts or above to be hazardous."

Reply to
Jim Wilkins

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