Virginia to stop recognizing concealed carry gun permits from 25 states

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> >> general-mark-herring-delivers-blow-to-gun-rights- > >> advocates/2015/12/21/d72ce3d0-a821-11e5-9b92-dea7cd4b1a4d_story.html > >> > >> RICHMOND -- Attorney General Mark R. Herring (D) announced Tuesday that > >> Virginia will no longer recognize concealed carry handgun permits from 25 > >> states that have reciprocity agreements with the commonwealth. > >> > >> Under the policy, Virginians with a history of stalking, drug dealing or > >> inpatient mental-health treatment cannot obtain a permit in a state with > >> comparatively lax laws and carry a handgun legally at home. > >> > >> Herring said severing the out-of-state agreements can prevent people who > >> may be dangerous or irresponsible from carrying a concealed handgun. > >> > >> "While you are here, you are subject to the commonwealth's gun laws," > >> Herring said in a news conference. The change means Virginia's standards > >> for obtaining a concealed weapon are applied "evenly, consistently and > >> fairly," he said. > >> > >> The move is part of a broader effort by gun control advocates to tighten > >> restrictions without going through GOP-controlled legislatures. > >> > >> Virginia Republicans reacted angrily to Herring's action, accusing him of > >> politicizing his office to erode Second Amendment gun rights. > >> > >> "Unfortunately, I have little doubt as to his true motivations," Virginia > >> House Speaker William J. Howell (R-Stafford) said. "Mark Herring > >> consistently seeks to interpret and apply the law of the commonwealth > >> through the lens of his own personal, political opinions. He is damaging > >> the integrity of the office he holds." > >> > >> Herring's action amplified a heated debate in Virginia and around the > >> country in the wake of rampant gun violence. It is also in keeping with > >> his embrace of liberal issues as he seeks a second term. > >> > >> A former state senator, Herring gained a national profile for refusing to > >> defend Virginia's same-sex marriage ban and followed up with rulings > >> siding with advocates for abortion rights and immigration reform. > >> > >> Del. Robert B. Bell III (R-Albemarle), a former state prosecutor, is the > >> only declared Republican challenging him in 2017. > >> > >> "This is another Washington-style overreach from a nakedly partisan > >> attorney general," Bell said. "Instead of doing the job he was elected to > >> do, Mark Herring continues to put the political goals of his liberal > >> supporters ahead of sound legal judgement." > >> > >> Gun rights advocates have criticized Gov. Terry McAuliffe, Herring and > >> other Democrats for insisting on stronger gun laws after mass shootings > >> in > >> which the assailants obtained their weapons legally or suffered from > >> mental illness. > >> > >> In October, McAuliffe banned firearms in state buildings, earning a > >> rebuke > >> from the National Rifle Association. > >> > >> This year, Herring's office began a review of reciprocity agreements > >> Virginia has with 30 other states. Attorneys discovered that 25 of those > >> states had concealed handgun permit regulations that were weaker than > >> Virginia's. > >> > >> "That circumvents and undermines Virginia law," Herring said. "And it has > >> meant that individuals the General Assembly has specifically disqualified > >> because of their past conduct still have a path to getting a concealed > >> handgun permit." > >> > >> The State Police superintendent accepted Herring's recommendation to > >> sever > >> agreements with those states, effective Feb. 1. > >> > >> The states are: Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Florida, Idaho, > >> Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, > >> Nebraska, New Mexico, North Dakota, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, > >> South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Washington, Wisconsin and > >> Wyoming. > >> > >> Agreements will remain with West Virginia, Michigan, Oklahoma, Texas and > >> Utah. > >> > > Does Virginia actually have a serious problem with concealed carry permit > > holders from Idaho, North Dakota and Ohio going to Virginia to commit > > mayhem? > > No, and I would question whether the AG has the authority to arbitrarily and > unilaterally nullify state law. > > Indeed, I suspect anyone that is harmed by his actions may well have a very > good lawsuit against the man, both personally and professionally.

But, attornies general are elected by the people to present that, not you.

Reply to
mogulah
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No they are not. Their job is to enforce the law as set by the state legislature. They do NOT have the authority to change modify or nullify the law.

Reply to
Bob La Londe

"Bob La Londe" fired this volley in news:n5f1ln$q7a$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:

But, nonetheless, Bob, he's done it (looked it up elsewhere, because posts here are so unreliable). Now we wait to see if the Va public and the legislature will counter his illegal act.

I have regular business in that state, and always carry. It will be a problem.

LLoyd

Reply to
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh

The thing is many of those states including Arizona can only accept CCWs from other states if they give reciprocity. He has weakened the Virginia CCW.

Reply to
Bob La Londe

You might have done better by looking at the actual law and its legislative history. Virginia legislators have initiated bills granting general reciprocity 3 times, none of them ever made it to the governor's desk for signing.

The assumption under Virginia's current law is that those states apply the same 20-point qualification requirement as Virginia's own concealed carry law. The AG did an investigation of their laws and found out that 25 of them fail to meet Virginia's standard.

Thus, he is just enforcing the law as it stands. If he didn't, and did what you suggest, THAT would be an illegal act under Virginia law.

You can get a nonresident permit. It has exactly the same requirements as the one for residents.

Reply to
Ed Huntress

I believe it's more accurate to say that he followed the Va. law and pushed back against those who are trying to coerce Virginia into accepting laws that were passed by other state legislatures, but rejected by their own.

From a couple of things I've read, don't be surprised if more states follow suit.

Reply to
Ed Huntress

You mean states like Kalifornicastan? I was surprised when so many states did offer reciprocity, but regardless, according to Arizona law ( and several other states ) Virginia permits are no longer valid in those states.

Reply to
Bob La Londe

I mean states that recognize that some *other* states are allowing people under indictment for a felony or convicted of a misbemeanor for domestic abuse, such as Arizona, which also allows nonimmigrant aliens to carry concealed guns; or Idaho, which allows people convicted of violent felonies to keep their guns, except for those actually used in the commission of the felony. (The federal law is enforceable only in the *purchase* of guns by felons, or in the commission of a federal crime.)

The laws are seriously crazy and permissive in about ten states. Virginia is not crazy.

What you've identified is the crux of the issue: Arizona doesn't care about Virginians or anyone else carrying guns in Arizona. But they want Virginia to ignore their own laws and let *Arizonians* behave as they want to in Virginia. That isn't reciprocity. That's coercion -- you observe *our* laws in *your* state, or we'll punish you.

And we know where it came from -- an organization that doesn't care a whit about the law in Virginia or Arizona. It cares only about coercing states to follow its own agenda.

Virginia said "no sale." They're not stupid.

Reply to
Ed Huntress

I think you grossly misunderstand the laws of other states and what is or is not enforced. Even Kalifornicastan has the option to appeal to the governor to have rights re-instated. It is not legal for a felon to own a firearm in Arizona otherwise. I can't speak for Idaho. A felon will not receive a CCW in Arizona unless rights have been re-instated. Only non-violent felons get their rights re-instated.

As you have demonstrated yourslef to be a "common sense" antigun nibbler I believe we are done. I don't think we can even agree to disagree.

My original statment that the AG has weakened the rights of Virginia permit holders is still true. Virgina permit holders can now no-longer legally carried concealed in a whole host of states they could previously. You did a good job of mis-directing from what I said, but that doesn't make my statement any less true.

Virginia residents should complain to their legislature.

Reply to
Bob La Londe

On April 14th of this year, Az. Gov. Ducey signed a law that eliminates the two-year waiting period for convicted, nonviolent felons to have their gun rights restored. As the case law in AZ would show this, it doesn't require the Governor to get involved, and it's virtually automatic for nonviolent felons.

How this will work out in relation to federal law is an unanswered question, but for now, the federal law can only be enforced in regard to *purchase*, not to *possession*, unless the person has been convicted of a felony under FEDERAL law.

Except for the aliens, I was speaking of possession in Arizona's case, not carry.

I'm a gun owner for 56 years, a former NRA-certified rifle instructor, and a long-time defender of our right to self-defense with guns. The thing that confounds the gun nutz is that I actually read the laws and the court cases.

He followed Virginia's law. Lloyd said what he did is illegal, which is incorrect. You said it "weakened the Virginia CCW." Actually, he strengthened its compliance with the law. If other states want to get huffy about it, too bad.

See above. Virginia now holds CCW holders from other states to the same legal requirements as their own citizens. That doesn't sound like "weakening" to me. It sounds like strengthening the law so that it applies equally to everyone.

From Virginia's perspective, their main concern is gun safety in

  • Virginia*. What Aridzona or Idaho want to do within their own borders, that's their business. But those states are not going to impose THEIR gun laxity on Virginia.

I'm sure that many of them will.

Oooh, touchy today, eh?

Reply to
Ed Huntress

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