Voltage drop scenario/amperage question

I've just wired an external box with 10/3 solid copper 600v. wire with AWG running about ten feet from the panel to an outside outlet. I need to run
it 100' to my slab where I weld. I want to use MAINLY a Lincoln SP 175+, and the input amperage on that is 22 amps. Can I run a 100' of 10/3 AWG with stranded wire safely? It's the big yellow one available at HD.
Now, I also have an AC 225 Tombstone that pulls 50-63 amps. How about that one?
I'm probably going to get a gas driven welder/generator in the future, but this is what I have to work with NOW.
Steve
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 12:15:57 -0800, "SteveB"

For temporary work it should fly. You can normally push a free-air cord pretty hard amperage wise. Heat is your enemy. I wouldn't try cranking up the Tombstone very high though. Mid-range stuff should be okay on it. Make sure the plugs aren't dull/corroded over and that they have a snug feel when you plug them in. Check/keep an eye on the plugs and make sure they don't over heat. The plugs are the most likely problem area.
--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 12:15:57 -0800, "SteveB"

Safely, yes. Voltage drop: resistance of 200 ft (round trip) of #10 copper is about 0.2 ohms, drop of 0.2 volt per amp or about 4.4 volts at 22 amps -- shouldn't be an issue. It'd be 12 volts at 60 amps or 5.5% of 220V, shouldn't be an issue.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Don Foreman wrote:

60 A through 10 GA wire certainly would be an issue, at least code wise, seeing as it's only rated for 30 A generally.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
SteveB wrote:

The buzz box will certainly work, but only up to about half output. As long as your circuit has properly sized breakers i.e. 30A it's safe enough. Since the NEC has an exception for circuits serving electric welders you could over fuse the circuit based on the duty cycle of the welder if that's all it's feeding.
I ran my nominal 100A input Syncrowave on a 30A circuit for around a year before I got around to upgrading power to my shop. Since I was mostly welding 16 GA square steel tubing and only pushing near 1/3 output it ran fine.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Good stuff snipped.
Thanks, Pete, and all.
Comes down to this:
The 100 footer will run the MIG fine. It will run the buzz box marginally, and I don't do things that way. I'm going to wire the work area for now with the MIG and a takeoff for 110v. tools. I will never be welding and using the 110 at the same time, so there's little chance of overloading that. My union electrician friend is coming this weekend to do some more work on the new casita to hook up the panel, and wire in the 10/3 10' run from panel to box. He has suggested going to 6 ga. to run up to the shop later, but that will probably involve running another line from the pole. :-( It is what it is. This will get me welding on some things I needed to do yesterday, and get the pipeline unplugged.
And as you say with your Synchrowave, I mostly run my 175 for .065 tube, intermittent welds, so it's well within limits. Just wanted to be sure, tho. Although I can't use the buzz box, now this gives me an excuse to buy one. :-)
Thanks to all.
Steve
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Although I can't use the buzz box, now this gives me an excuse to buy

Meant to say buy a gas driven AC/DC welder and generator.
ooops.
brain fart
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

He had a really good suggestion. Problem is, with the price of copper, it may be the same money to just put a separate service in the shop.
--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Anthony wrote:

Possibly, but a separate service in the shop will come with a separate service charge each and every month forever. When I repowered my shop which is also about a 100' run from my main panel, I ran 1/0 copper for a 125A service. The copper prices were up then, but not as bad as now, but it's still over with and not charging me every month.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

I just ran 2400lbs of 2/0 for a customer, and am fixing to hang about the same amount of 10ga.
Im glad Im not providing materials on this job.........
Gunner
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

That's what we'd do, since we're maxed out on the 200A house panel. So, for the cost, it becomes an option to just buy a welder/genset.
Steve
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
SteveB wrote:

How many spaces on that 200A panel? Are you really maxed out as in out of capacity, or just out of spaces? Remember, a second service comes with a second monthly service charge forever, so it far cheaper to use appropriate sub panels rather than a separate service.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

As I wrote this, I was thinking that the wirefeed would PROBABLY work, but the buzz box probably would NOT work. I'm trying to get hold of my union electrician friend, but he is in another city and has not called me back yet. In the meantime, I'm trying to get a handle on what I can and can't do.
Thanks for your input(s).
Steve
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

For in-building wireing, yes. Codes don't apply to extension cords in open air, far as I know -- but I'm not an electrician. Winston is right, 7.2 watts per foot is a lot and may be too much -- cord might get too hot.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Don Foreman wrote:

He ran 10/3 from the panel to an outside outlet, so that is 30A inside wiring, the only exception is Article 630 if the circuit is only for an arc welder in which case it can be "over fused" based on the welders duty cycle. It's also not directly the duty cycle, i.e. 50% duty cycle does not mean you can run 60A on 30A wire. The table in that article gives the multiplier to use.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:33:27 -0600, Don Foreman

Though the duty cycle on the Tombstone is only 20%, so the welder is more likely than the cord to overheat. Disregarding the voltage drop, for permanent premises wiring, a 60A breaker feeding a 20% duty cycle welder thru 10 ga wire would be code compliant.
--
Ned Simmons

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:32:56 -0800, "SteveB"

I once pulled 500 amps out of a CyberTig 2, using 12ga stranded
Not for very long, just long enough to stick a piece of 6011 completely through both sides of a 2.5x2.5" piece of thickwall tubing.
About 120 amps at 240, 3ph. Didnt get very warm, though the piss dribbling down my leg was warmish.
Had the remot control pot wired backwards......low turned out to be "full on, full military power"
Gunner
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Don Foreman wrote:

Power dropped by the extension cord is 97 W in the first case and 720 W in the second case. That second figure sounds high to me.
http://www.belden.com/pdfs/MasterCatalogPDF/PDFS_links%20to%20docs/03_Hook-Up%20&%20LeadWire/3.28_3.32.pdf
Page '3.30' has a table showing ampacities for multiple conductor cables. Table 4 shows 40 A being an upper limit for 10 AWG neoprene insulation at 86 F ambient (or cooler). That's 320 W loss or 44% of the loss at 60 A.
Were I you, I would buy another identical extension cord and connect it in parallel with your existing cord. You'd have 0.10 ohm loop resistance, a drop of 6.3 V or 397 W at 63 A. That should limit power in each cord to 200 W and you get to use the additional 320 W (that would have been wasted as heat in one cable).
--Winston
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Winston wrote:

http://www.belden.com/pdfs/MasterCatalogPDF/PDFS_links%20to%20docs/03_Hook-Up%20&%20LeadWire/3.28_3.32.pdf
NEC Article 630 allows supply conductors for arc welders to be "over fused" based on the welder duty cycle (table 630.11(A)).
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Pete C. wrote:

I think the headroom is worth the US$130. That's just me, though. http://electrical.hardwarestore.com/12-33-outdoor-extension-cords/10-3-conductor-100 ''-yellow-jacket-extension-cord-646965.aspx
--Winston <-- More Powerrrrr!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Polytechforum.com is a website by engineers for engineers. It is not affiliated with any of manufacturers or vendors discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.