whats up with NAMES

Hey Chuck,

Your question prompted me to write to one of the directors, asking the same as you, but for some detail. I'll let you know if he replies, and what he had to say.

Brian Lawson, Bothwell, Ontario.

ps...you were congratulating somebody very recently about a nice lathe, and mentioned Dick and Dave. Is that Dick Triemstra from Detroit?

Hey Chuck,

Well, we'll see. I got a very short reply from the Prez (I think), stating that I would receive more information "pretty soon". I'll forward what I get, when I get it.

By the way, did you answer me about who Dick and Dave are? Maybe if you did it's further down this latest 122 messages.

Brian

If the subject was machine tool dealers, Dick would probably be Dick Triemstra in/near Detroit, MI. Dave might have been Dick's partner.

Mike

This is what I heard through my contacts that I should not name in a public forum without their consent.

Bowling Green site was a large area adjointed to a shopping center. This location was used for lots of shows (like gun shows). The postivies on this was you could walk over to the food court for lunch and there was plenty of free parking (but you might have to walk a bit). Apparently the owner got a better offer and canceled all shows without any notice. Lucky for NAMES, they have some time to find another place. I guess they didn't read the fine print about cancelation policy.

I heard that southgate civic center told NAMES the civic center was still available. NAMES told them they were not interested. I find this interesting.

Apparently they setting on the Toledo site listed on their web site. I am curious as to why. The admission price is listed at

8 bucks on the names web site. However I was told it costs 5 bucks a day to park and if you leave and come back, it cost another 5 bucks. I do not know about food services but I wonder if food at a convention center will be overpriced.

I was also told that the vendor tables are more expensive and they have fire marshals walking the floor to make sure the vendors don't overrun their area. I was also told they charge for things like the fork lift (35 bucks each up/down) that was apparently free at southgate civic center. Each power outlet cost $40 (it was 10 at southgate)

It would be nice to hear from a vendor (are you out there scott) as to the what the cost difference really is and will it affect vendor attendance.

chuck

Chuck sez: " It would be nice to hear from a vendor (are you out there scott)

Hey, if it's not good enough for Scott Logan, it's not good enough for me. AFAIC, the attendance of Scott at any such doin's is a great qualifier of the show's worth.

Bob Swinney

Well, I appreciate the vote of confidence, but perhaps you place too much faith in my opinion?

Here are some of my thoughts. Call them ramblings, and perhaps other folks will add further comments. My comments are meant to be constructive, and if any show organizers read these, either here or as forwarded messages, please do not take this as anything else.

Communication. I have felt for some time that communication from organizers of these shows could be better. I have offered in the past to assist in setting up email lists for organizers/vendors/volunteers/interested parties, but have never been taken up on the offer. Several years ago, the NAMES expo moved from one venue to another in the same vicinity. The web site was not updated, and I was afraid that visitors might not know about the change. In that case, the move was only a couple of miles, so I suppose a note taped to the door would have been sufficient, if perhaps a bit unprofessional.

In addition, I can't remember the last time we saw anything posted to this group in the way of "official" comments from organizers of any of the shows. I have posted notices fairly regularly, but I am NOT one of the organizers of any of the shows. Just a vendor, who wants to insure the biggest possible turnout, as it would correlate to bigger profits for me. Yeah, that's right, I'm a stinking capitalist.

Arena. The Southgate Civic Center was a bit nicer than Yack Arena, but I and others had some complaints. Probably the biggest was the ice. For those who have not been there, the show was held in a pair of ice skating arenas. One was always melted, but the other was always still frozen, and covered by floor boards. This helped a bit, but the hall was still cold. Strangely, last April, the side without ice was actually colder, due to the weather outside and lack of effective heating. By the time I left Sunday evening, I was feeling miserable, and so was Abi.

From what I am seeing, the new venue in Toledo would seem much like the venue in Visalia CA. This is a convention center, with *TWO* attached hotels. I thought that was a wonderful benefit in CA, since I did not have to have a car for anything during the weekend if I did not want. In fact, last year at Visalia, I did not use my car at all after arriving Thursday evening, until it was time to pack up Sunday evening. Even that was just driving from one end of the lot to the other, loading, then moving back, until we left the next morning. We were even able to walk to dinner, and some really nice places, within a mile or less.

Regarding those two hotels, I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who has personal experience. I was leaning towards staying at the Hotel Seagate, but saw some reviews that scared the cr@p out of me. The other hotel is the Radisson, which happens to be the same chain as at the Visalia show.

Yes, it is going to more expensive for me, as a vendor. For the same arrangement as I had last year, it will probably cost 30-50% more than before, and that is NOT including the extra cost of gas these days. As noted, the cost for an electric outlet is 4 times as high, and it specifically says for ONE outlet. Also, this is the first show I've been to where we will have to pay for parking. Probably understandable, since it is in the "City Center", but basically, it means that a "couple" is paying $10.50 each for admission. A single person is paying $13.00, nearly twice what it cost in the past.

OTOH, this may be the only show left that I can afford to attend, based mostly on time spent away from the office. It has been heartening to hear from folks who attended the January and August shows who said they missed seeing me there. Thank you.

I don't know anything about the plans for Bowling Green, but I was a little reticent about holding the show in a shopping center. My understanding was that the location was built to be an "Anchor Store" in a large shopping center, but no one moved in. After trying to fill it, the center's owners/managers decided to make it into a convention hall.

Will I attend NAMES 2006? Probably. Part of my decision rests on the response, if any, I get from the vendor contact, whom I emailed a week ago with some questions. The fact that I have not heard anything in a week is not encouraging.

Part of my decision also is based on the availability of Abi. Some of you remember her from a lot of years ago. Believe it or not, she is now a Senior in High School, and her time is far more filled now than before. Also, the following weekend in Prom, so she may be busy getting her makeup/hair/dress ready even that weekend before.

Finally, part of the decision will be based on comments here and elsewhere from potential attendees.

So, let's hear it! Speak up.

Scott S. Logan wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Things are not looking good for my attendance this year. While I admit to being somewhat spoiled by having it 10 miles from home all these years, Toledo is a bit past my auto-club towing limit. While there is still plenty of time for that position to change I dont see it happening.

As to why it moved, I dont know for sure. I seem to recall a couple of the NAMES members were from the Ohio area already, maybe it was just their turn. The only way I knew it moved was overhearing conversations at the show, and coming home to read the former webmasters comments on the move just before he quit. It seems like there is some friction in the organization.

As to how the attendance will pan out, its anybodys guess. It could potentially draw more folks from Cleveland and Cincinatti areas to make up for those lost from the Detroit area. I would assume much of that would depend on how well they got the word out, and they dont seem to be doing a good job of that so far. :)

Scott, I once introduced myself to you at NAMES as a lurker here, but I guess that isnt entirely true anymore. :)

Jeff

I'm sorry to hear of the trials and tribulations of the various metalworking shows. PRIME went under, and it's replacement, GEARS, will soon follow, at any rate none of the guys I used to know that used to go to the old PRIME will waste a dime going to GEARS again. Visalia is a crapshoot, and to hear that even the big shows back east like NAMES are struggling is disappointing.

I'm in no position to go to any of these except maybe Visalia someday (because I have a free place to stay a short ways south). Maybe someday.

Nice to see Scott Logan posting on this subject. Scott, that Aridifier you sold me went into a shopmade air dryer I cobbled together, see:

Shortly after I got that built, I found a refrigerated air dryer I couldn't pass up, so I sold the one I made. Still like that Logan Aridifier, though.

Grant Erwin Kirkland, Washington

I was at the Radisson in Apr. for the model airplane show. It's an old hotel the room was livable and clean but well used. You can get a motel for much less if you want to drive about 10 miles across town. The Seagate is about 10-12 dollars less.

Southfield was 2 hours south, so it was a day trip. Toledo is 3+ hours, so it's a really long day trip, or more reasonably, an overnighter. I don't know. I've made every NAMES since I moved to Michigan, but only one Toledo model show. Still, it's a little closer than Bowling Green.

One advantage of an overnighter is I could attend longer. I usually scoot around both floors and am gone in 3-4 hours.

Pete Keillor

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Hey Chuck, et al,

Here is what Clarence Myers, one of the originals and a well respected Director of NAMES, replied to me, so I'm posting it. His email address is at the bottom, but I think anything that you aske him should post here too, for all of us to see and comment about/on.

Brian. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Brian Yes please use "facts" I sent . Please keep sending any questions you find to us. You may invite anybody who has comments to contact us directly, and we will answer Talked to vendor persons and they have been out of town, and will return first of the week to respond to any questions. Thanks again Brian Clarence

Brian Yes please use "facts" I sent . Please keep sending any questions you find to us. You may invite anybody who has comments to contact us directly, and we will answer Talked to vendor persons and they have been out of town, and will return first of the week to respond to any questions. Thanks again Brian Clarence

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com

From my house in eastern CT to the Red Roof Inn in Maumee is 12.5 hours, 720 miles.

I know this because that is where I stop on my way to Oshkosh.

A bit more or less will not effect my decision to go or not.

I did like the facillity last year in Southgate, I found it easy to load and unload and just a bit on the chilly side. I was in the same arena as Scott Logan. One thing I didn't care for was the fact that I was not early enough (my bad) for one of the seminars and the much too small room was already jammed when I got there.

Errol Groff

Grant... I am curious about why you didn't like GEARS... could you elaborate?

Mark

metalworking

I'm still waiting to hear his "facts"... Sounds like he is a bit sensitive about this to me... :)

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Hey Chuck,

Geez, I'm VERY sorry. Clarence replied immediately to me back on October 8/05, and the reply/answer from Clarence was SUPPOSED to be included in what I wrote to this thread on October 9/05. I just screwed up!! Sorry about that!!

Clarence wrote: =========================================================

We (NAMES) were going to Bowling Green, but the hall owner found a better paying tenant. So we ran like fury and found the hall at downtown Toledo. This hall is real nice as you know with power, phones, and air in the floor on 30 foot centers. No more overheads.There is parking without going up and down hills, but it costs $5 per day. The news letter was a sad story, nobody wanted to take on the job. It is very hard to find good articles for the letter. Maybe some day we can start it up again.

=========================================================

The "overheads" Clarence refers to are not the monetary costs, but rather the method of providing the air lines and electricity to the exhibitors and vendors tables and areas. They had to be "strung up" above everything and not laid on the floor. It was possibly the single most labour intensive and physically dangerous part of set-up at either of the arenas. I assume there will still be the piping used as air manifolds on the table tops, which is sometimes frustrating to get it set up right, but still relatively easy as it's a "many hands make light work" classic.

And I have to disagree with you about the part that Clarence is "sensitive" about the issue. I think from the rest of the email dialogue we had, that is not the case. Unhappy??Yes!! but there is just no way to disseminate the information easily, and no doubt they were not pleased at all to have to go through this. For instance, I believe that the "poster/flyers" for 2006 were already done and handed out at the 2005 show, and so will have to be re-distributed as either reprinted, or at least "patched over", and at significant cost to the "bottom line $", and lost time to the Directors.

And then, I should also have included the "next" email from Clarence too:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ================================================== Brian Thanks for the input. The $35 fee is to unload a semi truck only. Cars and pickups etc. are free. The comment that the Southgate civic center said we could come back is not true, as we never asked if we could. The main reason for the move was the yearly uncertainty about the covering for the ice. We were never sure that the cover would be available until just before the show. If it would not be available, we would have to go buy enough plywood to cover the ice, and find a way to store the wet plywood until next year. Now you have heard the rest of the story.

Clarence Myers. ====================================================

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And reference to the $35 above...the only semi's to require "unloading" that I am aware of in the past years, are the Prazi lathe/mill/CNC skids of stuff that John Szot sends via UPS or FedEX from California, and the skids of catalogues handed out by Travers Tools. No doubt there are others, but those are the only two that I distinctly recall.

Once again, SORRY I left everybody hanging. Wasn't intentional, and the delay is in part because I've been away for a few days (watching the fall tree colours a bit north of here).

Take care.

Brian Lawson, Bothwell, Ontario.

No problem, and thanks for the info. You know, I knew it was a skating rink, but never noticed or thought about the ice. On the other hand, I was never there more than 4-5 hours, and wasn't manning a booth like Scott and others.

Pete Keillor

Sounds like it might be a nice location. Only one way to find out. Attend the next show. chuck