Using CO2 with Airbrush

I'd like to try using CO2 with my airbrush. I'm currently using a 10 gal. portable air tank which is kind of big and bulky. Can anyone tell me exactly what I need to use CO2, such as regulators, guages, valves, etc., as well as the approximate cost. What size do CO2 tanks come in and what the initial cost as well as the refill cost, on average? Where's the best place to buy this stuff, a welding supply house? Any and all info or tips appreciated.

Thanks,

Gary

Reply to
Gary W. Gerfen
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Gary - I've been using CO2 for about six years now. I have seen cylinders in these available sizes: five, 10, 20 and 40 pound capacities. I have two five pounders and one 20 pounder. The fives cost about $8 each to refill, the 20, around $12. I converted one CO2 fire extinguisher, my brother gave me the other five pounder and I found(!) the 20 pound cylinder. Prices for these are $55 and $90 for each size, respectively at the welding gas supply house I frequent. You'll also need a CO2 regulator (available there or any in-home beer supply house) and a reducing fitting for the brand of airbrush you use (for the hose). I also use a secondary regulator ($15 from Sears) to further control the pressure. I don't know how much the CO2 regulator runs, perhaps $40-$60. It will have an orifice for a gauge (not always supplied) and another for the pressure tap. I used a small pipe nipple to connect the two regulators in series. You won't need a moisture trap as CO2 is anhydrous (moistureless) and the only drawback I've experienced is frosting of the regulators during long spray sessions in the humid Summer. You'll have to get the cylinders tested every five years (my five pounders are there as I write this) for around $10. I use the 20 pounder primarily and the smaller ones as backup. I think the 20 pounder is as large as you'd care to go if your current

10 gallon air tank is too bulky. My five pounders are handy and not too heavy to maneuver. A small pipe wrench might be useful to attach the regulator to the cylinder. FWIW, I started with a small, noisy compressor then tried converting my SCUBA cylinders which worked but proved too expensive. The next step ws CO2 and I've found it to be a very worthwhile source to power my airbrushes. I'll post an image or two of my setup in the alt.binaries. models.scale newsgroup tomorrow morning so you can see what I did. If you can't get there, let me know and I'll e-mail you a copy of them. Hope this helps.

Frank Kranick

Gary W. Gerfen wrote:

Reply to
The Kranicks

portable air tank which is kind of big and bulky. Can anyone tell me exactly what I need to use CO2, such as regulators,guages, valves, etc., as well as the approximate cost. What size do CO2 tanks come in and what the initial cost as well as the refill cost, on average? Where's the best place to buy this stuff, a welding supply house? Any and all info or tips appreciated. Thanks,Gary>

This subject has been addressed and beaten up on numerous occasions, so you'll no doubt get more replies than you care for, but.... Personally, I prefer nitrogen over CO2; nitrogen is always dry, and I'm told CO2 has occasional moisture problems. Prices are virtually the same, so why risk it? A moisture trap would eliminate the problem, but why buy what you don't need? Prices may vary from one welding supply to another, and maybe even within the same company depending on your location. I went to Praxair and picked up a "Q" bottle for $55 one time lease fee, plus $17 to fill it. The regulator was an oxygen welding regulator purchased for $10 at a local surplus house. Another $3 for a fitting to convert from oxygen to nitrogen, and $24 for an airbrush pressure gauge. Done. A "Q" bottle holds approximately 120 cubic feet of gas, and should last six months or more with average use. I don't paint as much as some, more than others, and mine has lasted over a year. Whether you go CO2 or nitrogen, and regardless of the bottle size, they need to be securely attached to something to keep them from tipping over. There is 3,000psi in there, and things can get ugly in a hurry if the head is broken off (trust me on this one!).

When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. --Leonardo Da Vinci It's better to teach a child what you know than what you think.

Reply to
Disco -- FlyNavy

**originally posted 3/8/2002 w/ amendments**

Look up Welding Supplies in your local phone book. Beverage Bottlers and Industrial Gas would be my next searches if Welding Supplies didn't pan out. A 20lb tank will cost roughly $60-80... Refills average about $15-20, and while some places will actually refill your tank, most will just swap yours out for a filled one. Some establishments may allow a lease of the tank, but not without you ponying up a deposit first.

DON'T lowball the regulator; it will make or break your rig. The first regulator I tried cost $30.00 from Sears- and the when I turned the wheel it blew apart (compressed gas is a mighty powerful thing). I paid $120.00 for it's replacement; brand new, brass construction and fittings, and dual stage gauges, which measures pressure and gas remaining. The ability to fine tune your pressure without pulsing is a truly awesome thing that a solidly constructed regulator will give you.

Most CO2 regulators I've seen have 1/2in. NPT (i think that's what they're called) fittings, the same that are used on most airbrush hoses, so you won't need an adaptor for your existing hoses.

But what you really need to invest in is some shock cords or tie-downs to secure your tank to something solid so it doesn't tip over. Mine's tied down to my spray booth, which was formerly a computer desk. Again, compressed gas is very, very powerful, and while it is safe

99.9% of the time, you still have to be cautious. You'll want to take some general precautions when transporting the tanks in your car. The scary pics that you will see in every industrial gas supplier store will make you think twice.

But here's a good newbie tip on using CO2 and airbrushes....When you're done with a painting session; Never,ever, ever leave them hooked up without turning the gas off first. Best case scenario: you vent the tank til it's empty and you'll need a refill. Worst case scenario: you damage your airbrush (especially true of Aztek brushes) or your lines.

***

The only thing I'd add to this is that a 20lb CO2 tank is also fairly bulky. The tank's roughly knee-high and about 6-8 inches in diameter. If space is an issue but noise isn't- a compressor would be the better choice.

-- Sat

Reply to
Saturn S. Padua

You'll need to get a set of guages/regulator set from a welding gas company, they run about $85.00, also a CO2 tank, they come in 2 sizes, I belive its a

10lb and a 20lb tank. I have the 10 lb. and it ran about 90 dollars. A tank will last 8 or more models. for me it about a year of model building more or less. A refill costs about $10.00. Best of all you get no water splatters on your nice paint job.
Reply to
JRFORSTER2

PLENTY of ventilation. I'm very skeptical os CO2 since I once nearly asphixiated myself with LN2...I'd prefer dry breathing air, from a dive shop.

Reply to
Rufus

in article xaXWb.166741$U%5.756879@attbi_s03, Rufus at snipped-for-privacy@mchsi.com wrote on 2/12/04 9:06 PM:

You would have to do some major painting to run much risk of asphixiation from a CO2 powered airbrush. In any case however, if you use an airbrush use common sense and have some ventilation.

I've used CO2 for over 20 years now, always with plenty of outside venting. CO2 has been one of the few things I've noticed decline in price. My 5# bottle once cost me almost $8 for a refill. Now it's $5.

MB

Reply to
Milton Bell

I was outside in the open air when I had my near miss...I remain skeptical...

Reply to
Rufus

I've gone that route as well, Rufus, but that means SCUBA cylinders, yearly inspections and the strange looks from my dive shop owner when I'm getting the cylinders filled in December - he knew I wasn't diving then... From what I've learned, compressed air is not a useful industrial gas and is not carried by supply houses and is used only for SCUBA, firefighter and EMT breathing cylinders, etc. And, you cannot fill another type of cylinder with a different gas (or compressed air) as the valves are different to prevent mix-ups. FWIW, I've used CO2 for a good while now and have seen no ill-effects but I do make sure I'm not shooting in the basement and there's make-up air for the room and my spray booth is functioning well.

Frank Kranick

Reply to
Francis X. Kranick, Jr.

Hey Disco. Going to the QC show this year? Ours is the next week in Des Moines.

Been on Co2 for about 20 years and never had a problem. Never heard of anyone needing a moisture trap with Co2. But I may try nitrogen next time if its compatable with my rig.

My last 15 lb. Praxair fill was about $30... After reading about $7 fills on rms I looked around and found a place that did it while I wait for $13. It could be at Praxair I got charged for transporting it to Des Moines and back. I know there are rules and regulations about transporting cylinders and wouldn't be surprized if moving a truckload of them is regulated tightly.

Tom

Reply to
Tom Hiett

Actually a number of industrial gas suppliers do have "compressed air", they just don't compress it. They mix it from nitrogen, oxygen and carbon dioxide.....the downside is it's usually half again as much as nitrogen or CO2. It's used where an anhydrous fill or dust off is needed but you want no chance of asphixiation and don't care if it's inert.

The big reas> I've gone that route as well, Rufus, but that means SCUBA cylinders,

Reply to
Ron

i always think of the poor nasa shlubs that went inside a booster fuel tank full of co2.

Reply to
e

I'd recommend using a compressed air cylinder instead. CO2 is more dense than air and will also have the tendency to freeze the paint - solid CO2 (as is in cylinders - it has no liquid state) comes out of the cylinders as gas near it's compressed temperature of -75C (about -130F). It will also require far more ventilation as you may asphyxiate while using it.

Reply to
Norman Lever

in article c0l5qv$f4m$ snipped-for-privacy@perki.connect.com.au, Norman Lever at snipped-for-privacy@newsgroups.usenet wrote on 2/14/04 6:54 AM:

Freeze the paint? Never heard of it. Certainly never experienced it and I've been using CO2 for over twenty years! How cold do you think the "air" is that comes out of the regulator? If it would freeze the paint, the regulator would freeze as well.

Forget it. It just doesn't happen with air brush rigs. Thousands of air brush artists have used this kind of rig for years.

MB

Reply to
Milton Bell

Methinks you might be thinking of some cryogenic gas...

The CO2 I use (and thousands like me) does not have the tendency to freeze paint nor does not come out near -75C and is liquid in the cylinder, not solid...

Frank Kranick

Reply to
The Kranicks

Okay, this is taking the thread a little far, but here goes. I am interested in trying C02. What do I look for in phone book? Just compressed gas suppliers? Do I need to find a place that is listed specifically as CO2, or do most compressed gas places handle CO2 as well as oxygen, acetylene, and such?

Reply to
Don Stauffer

Try looking under "welding supplies" as well, it may depend on how your phone book lists them. Depending on your area, home brewing suupliers or places that suply fountain drinks may carry the tanks as well. About any welding gas supplier carries CO2, you don't need to look for a CO2 only supplier.

The best advice I can give is: Call Around!

Prices between 3 or 4 stores in my area varied widly, some stores didn't like to deal with small tanks of CO2, so the 20# tank prices were higher, other places had cheaper tanks, but the regulators were almost twice the price of what I paid for mine. Also compare the prices between leasing a tank and buying it outright, this can vary considerably as well.

I eneded up buying my tank and regulator from the same place, cost me about $160-170 for both items, I own the tank outright, refills at the same place cost me about $15, I just swap tanks.

When buying a regulator, make sure that it has 2 gauges on it, one for output pressure, one for tank pressure. A gauge of this style is sometimes referedd to as a "double/dual stage" regulator, according to my supplier, a dual stage regulator is a completley different item and is considerably more expensive (ie double) than a single stage.

Ken

---------------- Ken Lilly snipped-for-privacy@technologist.NOSPAM.com

*remove NOSPAM to reply* When diplomacy fails, send in the B-52's
Reply to
Ken

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