Which 5" Loco?

Hi, I am about to start on my first engine, and I am having a little trouble in deciding what to build. My first thought was a 3 1/2 gauge Tich, and I actually started on the frames, however thinking about it, I would like to eventually put in a ground level garden track, and 3 1/2 does not seem to be very practical for ground level running. So I am now looking around for a 5" model.

My first requirement, being that I am a beginner, is that I would prefer to build from a series published in ME or EIM. As I really think that I need the "words and music". I have access to back issues of both magazines. Well I think that part of the problem is to much choice, I have considered:

  1. GER Y5 serialised in EIM as Blackwall.
  2. Gemma from EIM.
  3. Edward Thomas.
  4. Sweet Pea.

I am not that keen on Sweet Pea, as it is a freelance design. Any suggestions or alternatives would really be appreciated, or any advice from those that have built one of these engines. Thanks, Allen.

Reply to
AllenB
Loading thread data ...

In message , AllenB writes

[snip]

I'm building a Don Young 'Alice' Hunslet. It is my first attempt and was probably not the best possible choice. Nevertheless by making most things twice (once to find out how to make it and a second time to make it) I am determined to finish the project. Although I have Don's LLAS serialisation I find that as often as not I need to refer to Ross Harrison's EIM write up of 'Lilla' (another NG 0-4-0 Hunslet saddle-tank). In particular, I am finding Harrison much more informative now that I am getting to the pipe-work and plate-work stage. BTW, when it comes to fabricating small components take a look at Kozo Hiraoka.

'Lilla' and 'Alice' make for interesting comparisons. 'Lilla' is the larger prototype so at 1/7 scale (3 1/2" gauge) the model is approximately the same size as 'Alice' at 1/5 scale (5" gauge). Both are about 30" overall which I guess is about the same size as a 'Sweet Pea'.

In hindsight I now wish I had grasped the nettle and scaled up 'Lilla' to 5".

Reply to
Mike Hopkins

I'm building a Sweet Pea. It is a big engine, as it is a narrow gauge design, and I am now starting to worry about moving it!

There is a book on building it, an excellent website of a partial build, that you can download and print yourself colour photos from

formatting link
Further, Blackgates can supply castings, and finished parts (at a price obviously!) if you decide you can't make something.

I intend to buy a boiler, as my efforts at constructing small ones make me suspect that I cannot silver solder something that big, and it comes tested and certificated ready to install.

6 months on I have an air running chassis, a complete painted smokebox and chimney, and I am building the pumps then the brakes, whilst saving up for the boiler.

Martin L

Reply to
Martin L

Hi Mike, Thanks for the response, I really like the little Hunslets, and Lilla would have been my first choice except for the feeling that 3 1/2" isn't that practical for ground level running. I really don't have the confidence to scale Lilla up myself, and would be worried about getting castings. Unfortunately I don't have access to any LLAS, so I haven't seen the Don Young 'Alice', I am curious as to why you would have prefered a scaled up Lilla instead of Alice? Thanks, Allen

Reply to
AllenB

Hi Martin, Thanks for the link to the Sweet Pea web site, it is a very nice looking engine, but I am a bit biased against a freelance design, although I haven't competely discarded the idea. I am really having a hard time making up my mind, I suppose that building a loco is a bit like a marriage, it is a long term commitment, and unless one is completely commited to a design, there is little chance of success. Thanks

Reply to
AllenB

In message , AllenB writes

[snip]

That just about sums it up!

Reply to
Mike Hopkins

Why not build a Speedy then? It is a model of a "real" as opposed to an "invented" loco. Its been a very popular and successful engine, and is quite powerful too and has had many successes in IMLEC over the years. Its easier than some, having outside valve gear, and as you quote the term "words-and-music", the author of that term is still very worthy of listing amongst designers. There is a Don Young modification to the Speedy valve gera, which has been a successfgul "mod". The drawings from Reeves contain the "mod", and there are several makers of castings to choose from. Their is a very detailed booklet, reprinted from the original series, still available.

We have in the Bristol Society a Speedy (and still with its original owner and builder!) that was built when the design first was published, when the full-size loco had only just come out, and it is going very strongly still to this day, as is the full-sized restored one 1501, on the Severn Valley Railway..

"Nuff said" to quote another LBSC phrase!

Dave, Bristol

Reply to
speedy2

In message , AllenB writes

...

A 'Lilla' in 1/5 scale (5" gauge) would be a *big* engine! (LOA about

42"). I am expecting my 'Alice' to weigh in at something like 180lbs, a 5" 'Lilla' would be getting on for 400lb.

The 3 1/2" 'Lilla' is described in early issues of EIM. There are no castings, everything is fabricated including the cylinders which are made from cored cast PB and brass. If pushed however must admit however that a 5" 'Lilla' is a bit of a pipe-dream. I suspect that nowadays the biggest head-ache would be ensuring that the boiler met the current Pressure Vessel Regulations w.r.t. design certification.

There are plenty of preserved full size examples and in spite of their diminutive size they earn revenue on NG tourist railways. Originally they had open foot-plates but now most of them are now fitted with cabs. Try a Google advanced search for

All the words => hunslet locomotive At least one of the words => welsh wales slate quarry alice

This should give you a good start including 'Alice, 'Britomart', 'Cloister', 'Covercoat', 'Elidir', 'Maid Marion', 'Una' to mention but a few.

Also there is a Don Young 'Alice' at .

If you are really serious and want to see copies of the LLAS series then write to me off-group and see if we can come to some arrangement.

Reply to
Mike Hopkins

Not a very good or accurate model - in fact it's more of a carricature! "Sweet Pea" is more of a scale model than "Pansy".

LBSC's 57xx "Pansy" is a much better model.

For a first model why not try Don Young's "Marie-E? Very easy to build and is based on a real loco after one of Walt Disney's animators had rebuilt it.

speedy2 wrote:

snip

Reply to
Dick Ganderton

Hi Mike, Thanks for the offer, however I am in Canada. I see that Reeves offers a construction manual for Alice, presumably it is a reprint of the LLAS series. I think that I will order it from them. Regards, Allen

Reply to
AllenB

In message , AllenB writes

One would presume so but... Having heard some adverse comments about both the quality of the reproduction and the completeness of the series for another Don Young loco, I 'phoned Reeves this afternoon and asked a few questions.

In the original LLAS magazine, the building series were always accompanied by reduced size copies of the drawings. These took the form of approximately A3 size (A3 = approx. 11.5" x 16.5") fold-outs or centre-spreads. These are not included in the Reeves set. Also, in the case of some of Don's designs short follow-up articles would appear in LLAS in which a builder would describe their completed work and often mention small modifications or changes that they had chosen to make. I know of three in respect of 'Hunslet' and unsurprisingly these are not included in the Reeves set.

Reply to
Mike Hopkins

Hi Mike, Thanks for following up with Reeves, although I really like the Hunslets, without access to the original articles, and the follow ups in LLAS, I am concerned that I will be biting off more than I can chew.

I am starting to give 'Gemma' serialised in EIM, some serious consideration. The engine looks relatively simple to build, and I like the look of her (although I am sure many will disagree). I haven't heard anything negative about the design, so I think that I will make a start on the frames next week. Regards, Allen

Reply to
AllenB

PolyTech Forum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.