Which Mill?

Budget is £500-1000, and I haven't the space for anything big. It wouldn't be required to perform any heavy work but I would like, if possible, to get something half-decent that would last and that I wouldn't grow out of too quickly.

Research thus far has drawn me to the Warco WM-16, mainly due to the dovetail column, speed range and adjustable gibs. However, I am concerned that MT2 spindle might be a restriction and this makes me wonder if my money would be better spent on another machine.

Any comments would be welcome, even if they only bring me down to earth.

Have a look at the Arc Euro X3. Comes with either MT3 or R8 taper, dovetail column, adjustable gibs and all prepared for you. Can be supplied with DRO.

I came close to buying one of these last year. I ended up paying out more and getting a Warco VMC but think the X3 would have been perfectly good enough.

Usual disclaimer

I have an X3 - nice mill for the money. But absolutely don't be tempted to buy a "Super X3" until they have sorted out the motor/controller problems (Arc won't sell you one, but others might!)

Regards, Tony

Don't be put off by the MT2 quill. If you are a lathe owner what is the MT in the tail stock? if it's MT2 then the collet chuck you buy will fit both, often a useful feature. Likewise the boring head will fit both. MT2 tooling is readily available. Alan

In article , ian kyne writes

I would agree with Alan Marshall: you shouldn't necessarily be put off by having an MT2 taper spindle. I have had an Emco FB2 mill with this spindle for almost 20 years, and have not found it much of a limitation. Collet chucks, Autolock chucks, boring heads and other tooling is available in MT2 for pretty well anything I have ever wanted to do. Just occasionally I have been attracted to large cutters that were only available in larger tapers, but to be realistic unless the mill is beefy enough to withstand large cutters like this it is best to resist the temptation to use them.

Of course, you should always use a drawbar for any milling tooling you use (i.e. practically anything except drill chucks). Ensuring that there is easy access to the top for fitting a drawbar is a useful test on any machine you are considering. Ideally the spindle should also have some mechanism for releasing the taper afterwards; the Emco has a threaded top which allows the use of a threaded cap which traps the socket cap head of the drawbar and allows you to force out the taper with a hex key in the drawbar head and a spanner on the threaded cap. In fact this highlights the main advantage of the R8 taper over MT2 or MT3 - it is self-releasing.

On the other hand, making your own MT2 (or 3) tooling on a lathe is quite easy. I have never tried to turn an R8 taper (not having a machine which uses it) but I imagine it would be more difficult.

Unfortunately, the FB2 would be outside your budget (mine cost more than that 20 years ago!) but there are some cheaper clones, and you may get lucky with a second hand machine. I've never used or even handled a Warco WM-16, but the pictures and specification look fine, and Warco have been around a long time and have a good reputation.

David

Hi

Hope you don`t mind me hijacking this thread but I`m looking at getting a Warco VMC and I notice Norman has such a beast. I was wondering what Norman reckons of the VMC and Warco. I also looked at the Chesters version the 626 but Warco machines are reckoned to be better finished If all goes well I`m hoping to go to Harrogate in May and see what deal I can get at the show.

Cheers

Paul

I've had my VMC (Myford version) for about 20 years. 100% happy with it. I added a raising block under the head lifting it by about 125mm which gives a useful amount of extra daylight under the spindle. I also have a homebrew powerfeed to the table and a heidenhain 2 axis DRO.

Bob

Interestingly it's noticebly cheaper with the potentially more useful R8 than MT3. And for those who want to share some tailstock tooling an R8-MT sleeve is only £8.50.

Charles

The price difference comes about because they fit a quick release drawbar system on the MT3 version - avoids having to whack the drawbar wiv a ammer to release the taper. Works pretty well.

Regards, Tony

I've had a Warco VMC since August last year. Had a few teething issues with it, though nothing too serious, and Warco were pretty outstanding in addressing these. It could do with a slightly lower bottom speed (though Hemingway make a kit to modify this) and it needs a spindle brake to make tool changing easier, but again this is something that can be modified on it. Whereabouts in the UK are you? There are a few of us on here with the VMC's that I'm sure you could come and have a look at.

Peter

I got my Warco VMC (R8) about 18 months ago. Warco were extremely good and they assembled it at the works and unloaded it into my workshop (i.e. garage) all ready to go.

It's a big beast and occupies a lot of space. It's Chinese, so the finish is pretty crude in places. I replaced some of the grub screws with "proper" allen headed ones, but otherwise left it "as is". Its been solidly reliable and as accurate as anything I can do with it. The head height is fine for almost everything but I can see that there are times when extra would be nice - a rotary table on the table with a Myford chuck on it and a keyless drill cheuck in the head leaves very little air space.

For good finish the head has to be set exactly vertical and this can be a bit of a fidlle to get spot on - on the othert hand the head can tilt, which can be useful.

The power feed is a liitle bit noisy but works well and is handy to have - comes in the price of the basic machine.

Don't forget that you'll spend a fortune on accessories - vice, rotary table, collet chuck etc

Mine is fitted with 3-axis DRO which Warco installed before delivery. I've had a few problems with it going into hysterics and everything flashing at once. I talked to Roger Warren about it and he is going to check it all out for me when I can send the DRO head back to them - just haven't got round to it.

I find Warco excellent - helpful and reliable. They are not far from me and were very tolerant when I spent hours in their showroom twiddling handles.

It's also the cheapest and smallest mill in which the cut is put on by raising the table rather than lowering the head. Although I'm sure that the head lowering works OK, it intrinsically relies on the weight of the head to take out backlash. In the VMC there is no psoobility of error as you come upwards into the cut and automatically take out the backlash.

I think it is only fully assembled when you go for the DRO & Power Feeds fitted by Warco. Otherwise (like mine) it comes in the crate seperated into machine & stand with the power feed still packed in its own carton.

I'm pretty sure it only comes free when they a doing a promotion on this item. I was lucky, mine - and yours by the sound of it, came free. Otherwise it's a £325 option. You need a lathe or rotary table handy when fitting this as the graduated collar on the handwheel has to be bored out by a few mm. The current promotion is a free Er32 collet chuck.

Other than that I agree with everything you say. I'd love a Bridgy but unless my workshop/garage doubles in size I'm quite happy with this.

Peter

PS - if you do you get one Paul, then *definitely* get the extra wide swarf/coolant tray. Very well worth it.

Message for Peter Neil -wasn't sure if your email in the header was real or not

We were offered a couple of vertical moulding machines at work today, but we don't have anywhere to put them. Can't remember the make, I think they were Italian. Quite new, and very cheap. Drop me an email if you're interested -are you still doing a lot of insert work?

Regards

Kevin

Peter is absolutely right - I hadn't noticed that they've changed the promotion.

The ER collet set is in the current catalogue at £175 so its less good value

In article , David Littlewood writes

And don't forget to check the overhead clearance required to withdraw the drawbar from the quill...

I've got a Myford VM Mill. It wasn't till it arrived that I discovered that my garage ceiling wasn't high enough to remove the drawbar - I had to knock a hole in the plasterboard and line it with a bit of drainpipe (to keep the insulation in), after which the drawbar would come out

In article , Bob Unitt writes

Ouch! I suppose, in a desperate situation, you could make a flexible drawbar - something like a draw-chain. Should serve the purpose; bit fiddly to use, but may be better than no drawbar, or a hole in the roof.

David

Thank you all for your comments, much appreciated.

Ian.

Thanks Kevin, I'll drop you a line from work on Monday. The e-mail addy in the header works fine, but is one of the 'disposable' Yahoo ones I can dump if I get too much spam.

Peter

Thanks to everybody for the replies regarding the VMC.

I`m based in Stoke on Trent and have managed to have a run to Warco in Warrington also been to Chesters to have a look at the 626.

Just wondering what the height of the garage roof has to be to enable clearance for the drawbar?

Cheers

Paul

I too am looking out for a mill and only having used 'proper' industrial machines before hadn't spotted this issue, what experiences have people had with the 'lowering head' approach, is there a problem with backlash?.

Greg