Proper way to melt nylon

Fishing for information on do's and don'ts when melting nylon. What I need to do is liquify a relatively small amount to dip wood drumstick tips in to keep them from chipping. I figure weed eater line is a cheap source for the nylon. Is this something I'd want to attempt to do over a gas stove in a junk pan? I'm not sure if it will bubble and get messy......molten nylon is not my idea of snappy attire. So.....any advise?

Reply to
boardjunkie
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Melting nylon, or any plastic material, should be done carefully - as in heat controlled. Most plastics decompose quickly when melted much above their melting point - and that you don't want. To dip drumstick tips in... well sounds like you're thinking of a pool. Sounds like a bitch to get that much molten to me, better try from solution. And don't worry polymers do not bubble. They can not evaporate, so no bubbles. Except when you start decomposing them, then you may get other effects.

Anyway, for your problem, I'd say go from solution. Make a concentrated solution of nylon in a good solvent like formic acid, dip the sticks in, and let the solvent evaporate off. That will leave you a nice thin film

- repeat if necessary. No need to heat your solution; just be really careful, formic acid is rather aggressive, inflammable, etc. Good ventilation, no sparks, gloves, goggles, and the rest recommended.

Wouter.

Reply to
Wouter van Marle

OK, great info. Now, where can one obtain the formic acid and does it matter how much you use in dissolving the nylon?

Reply to
boardjunkie

I think that there are much easier solutions than trying to dissolve a nylon in formic acid.

Consider using something that is available at your local hardware store, or you can order on-line.

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are two of the many that came up on Google for "dip coating handle".

Ernie

Reply to
Ernie

Good idea, but you're talking about "tool dip" right? That's more of a vinyl type stuff if we're talking the same thing. Much too soft for the application.

Reply to
boardjunkie

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You want to coat the "business end" of the drumstick; I agree "tool dip" is likely to be too soft. How about "polyurethane gym floor" varnish?

There are several possible problems with nylon:

If you try to melt it on a gas stove, you will most likely scorch it. The nylon melt may not stick to wood, and even if it does, it will be a challenge to get a coating of desired thickness. There would be definite advantages to handling the nylon in solution, but you have to have access to formic acid which is corrosive (Do not handle without gloves and goggles!). Making a 5% solution (my guess) may take couple of days of constant stirring or shaking. I do not think that evaporating formic acid will be good enough. It may take a very long time for the formic acid to evaporate, and you should not be doing this in your kitchen! Dipping the coated drumsticks in water will extract the formic acid, but formic acid, or water may swell the wood, giving rise to more problems.

Some softer nylons are soluble in methanol, but fishing line is not likely to be soluble.

You can also consider an epoxy, but most epoxies probably are not tough enough for impact applications.

Does anyone make a plastic drumstick? Lots of people sell plastic rods,

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Acetals can be machined quite easily; I would start with DELRIN 150.

Good luck,

Ernie

Reply to
Ernie

Well here's the situation. I've been getting sticks in bulk from an ebay seller at a really great price, but they're made of hickory, which tears and splits where the stick hits the rim of my snare drum. Not that big a deal, I can cope with that. The biggest problem is that my (very heavy) ride cymbal actually causes the tip of the stick to chip and there may be up to half the tip missing from this. After that, the stick is useless. There are nylon tip sticks available, but I don't care for them as the stick is usually quite a bit thinner where the nylon bead is attached, causing them to be prone to breakage at that point. I figured that a coating of nylon at the tip would buy me more time with them since nylon is pretty indestructable in this application.

I've used JB weld to fill in the chips at the tips and (so far) it seems to hold up. I may try dipping some new ones in this gunk and see what happens.

There are similar products out there, but I don't care for them. Not enough vibration absorbtion so they're fatigueing to use.

How about a fiberglas resin without the "tiger hair"? Or is that more or less just an epoxy?

Reply to
boardjunkie

Solid nylon is a different animal than nylon coated wood. Unless you make the nylon so thick (2-3 mm or so) that it by itself can take the impact of your drumming - and I know from my time in a pop centre that drummers can hit really hard - the coating will do little to stop the wood from splitting. It at most will keep the two halves together; but I don't think that will be so great when drumming. I'm sure this is why the nylon-tip sticks you mention are so much thinner before the tip: to make place for the nylon. If your coating is thin, then the nylon will happily bend and transfer the impact to the wood beneath. If it's not very thin, it may spread the impact a bit, but it will still be the wood that has to absorb the energy.

Solid plastic I think is a more suitable solution.

Or just keep a few spares at hand while drumming, when you break one put it aside and take a new one. That's what I've seen many drummers do during the concerts; drum sticks now and then break after all.

Wouter.

Reply to
Wouter van Marle

I'd try the epoxy route. Look at the various 2 part mixes that come from 2 syringes. They make various grades and some are stiffer than others. Gel times vary but all are fully cured in a day. Unreinforced polyester resins are not as tough as epoxy or nylon.

Melting nylon is tough but you might try it on a hot iron which will minimize scorching as would happen on a stove. It will be difficult to coat and the nylon will want to string out and draw fibers. Try coating stick in puddle of molten nylon, pull away somewhat, and cut melt with cold scissors. Gently flaming the melt on the sticks should smooth it out.

Frank

Reply to
Frank

There was an interesting article in Popular Science Mag. about a month or two ago. It showed how to mix up a batch of nylon and pull it into a long strand. Might work for the drumstick application. If anyone is interested I'll dig it out. It could be on the magazine's site.

Reply to
Billy Hiebert

It's popularly called the nylon rope trick. You can google for it and find plenty of information.

It's probably a bad option, as the nylon will be too soft for heavy duty drumming. After all, the nylon is soft enough to coil up as a thick rope.

John Aspen Research, -

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"Turning Questions into Answers"

Opinions expressed herein are my own and may not represent those of my employer.

Reply to
john.spevacek

Nylon rope trick is interfacial polymerization of hexamethylene diamine in a water layer with adipoyl chloride in an organic, aprotic solvent. You can pull the rope from the center continuously. Totally unsuitable for coating purposes. OTOH if you dip something into molten nylon and pull it out you will get fibers from the melt. Filament winding the stick with nylon sewing thread and melting by flaming might also work. I think OP has enough suggestions to go try and report back to us.

Frank

Reply to
Frank

Most nylons will not work the way you are imagining. One, nylon and oxygen are not friends. It will seriously discolor and eventually loose strength if melted in the air. Being a semi-crystalline polymer nylon rather aburptly looses viscosity as it melts. If you are picturing a syrupy material I think you might be surprised.

I actually like the formic acid idea, though you would need to apply it several times. All major chemical companies sell formic. You would only need technical grade. Dip in solition (maybe a 5% weight into volume) then hit it with a hair dryer/heat gun and wash with water. Dry and repeat over and over.

Gloves and eye sheilds. Find out about local laws for disposing of your waste.

Reply to
Joseki

Hi boardjunkie,

I use nylon tip jazz sticks, which may be the equivalent to 9A or 11a...the y are really thin! But I have found a little trick to prevent those super s lim sticks from breaking; I simply wrap duct tape around the necks of the s ticks just below the nylon tip. What is cool about this is, it prevents the stick from breaking so easily, and, it softens the sound of the crash, so it is not so harsh! But, if you want that harsh crash, you adapt to crashin g with the lower (thicker )end of the stick. As for the nylon tip idea, have you come up with the best way to coat the t ips. I have some hornet sticks coming on the way, and they don't carry nylo n tips. I want them coated. Thought about taking old broken nylon tips, mel ting them down, and twirling tips into the melted nylon, but in light of th ese posts, it sounds like that is impossible! Any luck with other ideas?

Reply to
tworth

Just melt the damn stuff & be careful not to set it ablaze. Drip it into a form of desired shape & hey people, ever heard of common sense ?

Reply to
Rick Silling

hey are really thin! But I have found a little trick to prevent those super slim sticks from breaking; I simply wrap duct tape around the necks of the sticks just below the nylon tip. What is cool about this is, it prevents t he stick from breaking so easily, and, it softens the sound of the crash, s o it is not so harsh! But, if you want that harsh crash, you adapt to crash ing with the lower (thicker )end of the stick.

tips. I have some hornet sticks coming on the way, and they don't carry ny lon tips. I want them coated. Thought about taking old broken nylon tips, m elting them down, and twirling tips into the melted nylon, but in light of these posts, it sounds like that is impossible! Any luck with other ideas?

Reply to
Rick Silling

.they are really thin! But I have found a little trick to prevent those sup er slim sticks from breaking; I simply wrap duct tape around the necks of t he sticks just below the nylon tip. What is cool about this is, it prevents the stick from breaking so easily, and, it softens the sound of the crash, so it is not so harsh! But, if you want that harsh crash, you adapt to cra shing with the lower (thicker )end of the stick.

he tips. I have some hornet sticks coming on the way, and they don't carry nylon tips. I want them coated. Thought about taking old broken nylon tips, melting them down, and twirling tips into the melted nylon, but in light o f these posts, it sounds like that is impossible! Any luck with other ideas ? I

Reply to
Rick Silling

.they are really thin! But I have found a little trick to prevent those sup er slim sticks from breaking; I simply wrap duct tape around the necks of t he sticks just below the nylon tip. What is cool about this is, it prevents the stick from breaking so easily, and, it softens the sound of the crash, so it is not so harsh! But, if you want that harsh crash, you adapt to cra shing with the lower (thicker )end of the stick.

he tips. I have some hornet sticks coming on the way, and they don't carry nylon tips. I want them coated. Thought about taking old broken nylon tips, melting them down, and twirling tips into the melted nylon, but in light o f these posts, it sounds like that is impossible! Any luck with other ideas ?

Reply to
Rick Silling

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