Spirit Condition Upgraded as Twin Rover Nears Mars

One significant limitation is size. One of our best orbital intelligence assets is the Advanced KH-11 "Crystal" type spysat. It's roughly 50 feet long by 15 feet in diameter, with a dry weight of ten metric tons. Keyhole has a primary mirror that is at least 7.5 feet in diameter with a best guess ground target resolution of 10 to 12 centimeters.

Think of it as a Hubble Space Telescope with a maneuvering rocket stuck on one end. Getting a package the size of Hubble to Mars isn't something we can easily do right now.

Dosco

Reply to
Dosco Jones
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Spysats tend to be about the size of a school bus. Much too heavy and large to send to Mars with the launch capablilities and budgets we now have or will have for such things in the forseeable future.

Reply to
Chosp

I see. Sounds like a job for the Russians. I am sure they can put together a robust booster to get it there. Now coming up with the cash to do it would be the hard part. I guess it will always be cheaper to send a rover. I know there was talk of some type of plane to cruise around mars, that would be cool and seeing how advanced UAV's are in the military I would think it is very possible. Of course you would have to use a rocket for the engine.

Jason

Reply to
Jason Clayton

Ah, George, George, ...George, ... ' Who ?'

Reply to
don findlay

You have to say it's a far hike with a shovel. Especially when we don't even know what goes on on this dungheap. There's an awww...ful lot of people would like to see that money spent on better education (generally). Especially if we're to believe the figures on literacy etc... Which side of the balance has the most prestige? And who foots the bill for it?

Reply to
don findlay

Well, it was things like the Mars rover in '97 and a trips out to the western U.S. that inspired me to major in geology (finished my undergrad in Dec 03). While I might be going in a different direction than what I had originally planned (planetary science) it still gave me motivation to start and finish my education. As for just throwing money at public schools with students who don't care about learning because they have no inspiration...well that to me is a waste of money. Studying other planets does help us learn about our own; runaway greenhouse on Venus, what early Earth may have looked like on Titan.

I agree that we need to spend more on education, but NASA is ~1% of our budget. Perhaps we could scale back our military (especially since it didn't help prevent 9-11 attacks) and free up more money. I guess that's a whole other can of worms though.

Jason

Reply to
Jason Clayton

in

Well, of course, we differ on a lot of things. It's not surprising that we differ with regard to space exploration as well. Being a mid-aged American, I watched the "space race" as a youngster. Watching Neil Armstrong walk on the moon, and all the other astronauts that came after, has always been a source of pride and inspiration for me. Aside from the "glory" of space travel, there is much to learn from exploring new and alien worlds. Much of what we have learned has advanced our knowledge of the universe in ways no one could foresee. And in so doing, we have learned a great deal about our ourselves, our own world, and our place in it. Man has always been driven to push the envelope of possibilities. To not do so would be to deny our very nature as curious, inquisitive animals.

But curiosity is not the only reason. Can you think of other reasons, Don, why we should explore space?

As for the money that is spent, I can tell you that it is miniscule compared to the cost of many other human endeavors (i.e., Americans spend more every year on Pizza deliveries than we spend on space), and the return on the investment, in many respects, is far greater than the cost. And that return will continue for the forseeable future. As for who foots the bill, I think it is obvious that if space exploration is to be successful in the long run, and is to benefit all mankind, then the bill should be paid by everyone. Having said that, by and large, the American and Russian people has footed the bulk of the bill. That is not to say that the Europeans, the Japanese, and others are not active.

As someone (I'm not sure where it originated, but I remember it from a Carl Sagan book) once said, if we are alone in the universe, it seems like a terrible waste of space. Who are we? Where did we come from? Are they're other life forms in the universe? Are there others like us? These are no longer idle questions relegated to dusty lecture halls. As a species, we have a yearning to know the answers to these questions, a desire that is unique on our planet. The answers, while seemingly frightening to some, may be vital to our future survival, and to the survival of our world. We are a violent species. Of that, there can be no question. However, by looking outside of ourselves, and our own petty desires and troubles, at the world around us and the greater universe in which we are a part, we expand our knowledge and our horizons, and in doing find solice in our own inner security, or at least a foundation for it. And in finding that inner security, we may find a foundation for a lasting peace for all. Is that not worth the comparatively small cost? Is that not why you became a scientist?

Reply to
George

Always the skeptic, eh Don?

Reply to
George

If the bags worked correctly, perhaps it was the blokes who failed?

Reply to
Airy R. Bean

It could be anything. Until the ESA releases their review findings, we are all just speculating, right?

Reply to
George

Why would you need a rocket? Why not lighter than air power, aka a balloon?

Reply to
George

Still it does not makes you closer to understanding of Mars Geology ! You are all completely unable to apprehend the simplest fact of the Earthly one, running ahead won't help !

Further believing that such feat opens the path to interplanetary travel within Our Solar System is completely ludicrous ! The day I go to Mars , it won't take me more that 6 hours from TO to landing .... and going for a quick U-turn around the Moon to boost !

I feel like hearing praised being made to Bleriot for crossing La Manche or to the "de Montgolfier" bros for the first hot air balloon flight ! Pathetic !

Nom de dieu, mais c'est pas possible une telle ignorance de notre milieu !

Reply to
{#} jpturcaud

in

The US taxpayer foots the bill, but with the latest population estimate at around 293 million, the cost of each rover (including all the engineers, hardware, launch vehicles, JPL controllers, etc) comes in at about $1.50 per head each, or considerably less than the price of a Big Mac or a Sunday newspaper.

What you are missing is not just the pure science the whole world is getting from the Rovers, but the sheer inspirational factors in the classroom. This is one invaluable byproduct you can't put a price tag on. I suggest you visit your local school next time a visiting planetary scientist comes to give a classroom talk or assembly. Watch the faces and body language of the children.

Reply to
Mike Dworetsky

$400 million buys about 1,600 man years of effort. The recent PBS special shows a lot of these people behind the scenes. It takes a lot of engineers, even to get the parachute right.

Reply to
rick++

With a rocket stuck up your ass, no doubt.

Yes, it is quite pathetic that you cannot give praise where praise is due, but have to badmouth every scientific achievement like a spoiled brat who didn't get his jello.

Reply to
George

Or the heat shield, or the parachute, or the rigging, or maybe she just landed on a sharp rock. No one will know until we can go look.

Reply to
Dosco Jones

(Is that not why? ...Nah, it just seemed a good idea at the time...) I guess I was just mainly 'carmudgeonly reminiscing' on the 'well-travelled shovel'. But whilst we're on the point, I think you're being naive if you think the motivation for space exploration is inspirational, or finding peace and security for all... Or even for prestige... (Which returns us to the question of who foots the bill where I was thinking more globally than the per capita cost to the US taxpayer of an R2D2.). But you're right. Amongst scorched earth, most delicate flowers do grow. (I guess I was just thinking they should be nurtured - cultivated even.) Just (when you get there), ...Leave your guns at home George, Don't take your guns to Mars George, Leave your guns at home... (...Who foots the bill.. Mmm?)

Reply to
don findlay

George,

As you so well pointed out (and as others have added to), there are many good reasons why we should explore space ? our natural desire to understand the cosmos, the technological spin-offs, the inspiration to young people to pursue technology careers, etc. However, there are even more basic reasons ? the ultimate survival of the human race, for example. If we don't manage to eliminate ourselves on our own, there are plenty of threats to the long time existence of life on Earth. To name a few: major collisions with asteroids or comets as has happened in the past on many occasions to eliminate most species on Earth, a relatively close supernova (within 30 ? 50 light years ? unlikely but possible), a gamma ray burst hypernova within 1000 light years, the anticipated next ice age within the next

10000 years or less, a reversal of the magnetic poles of Earth (which has happened every million years or so in the past and may be starting again already) which could leave the Earth with a near zero magnetic field for a period of a hundred years or so and unprotected from the Sun's solar wind and other cosmic rays, the eventual end of life of our sun (in about 5 billion years) when the Earth will likely be consumed by the swollen Red Giant phase of the dying sun, and a number of other comic catastrophes. While the dinosaurs lived on Earth for some 300 million years before being eradicated by an impact with some early solar system debris, we humans have been here less than a million and yet we think we will be here forever. That is not the case. We buy life insurance to protect our immediate families after our deaths and show some concern for our children's futures and even or grandchildren and great-grandchildren but we seldom think much further ahead. Investing in space exploration now is buying life insurance for the entire human race! For it to survive in the long term, we must diverse ourselves from this single planet. If we are the only intelligent life in the cosmos (which I doubt), it would be a shame to see it extinguished due to our own lack of planning for the future.

Jerry

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-- Jerry Petrey

-- Senior Principal Systems Engineer - Navigation (GPS/INS), Guidance, & Control

-- Raytheon Missile Systems - Member Team Ada & Team Forth

-- NOTE: please remove in email address to reply

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Reply to
Jerry Petrey

What recent PBS special?

Thanks in advance.

Reply to
Greg Teets

Inspiration is a good motivation, but that is not what this is about, dude. It is about discovery.

You'll be glad to know that I don't own any guns. I figure if someone wants to kill me bad enough, its going to happen no matter what I do. So I don't worry too much about it.

Reply to
George

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