Re: Well, this doesn't look good...

I've been in that facility. To put this into perspective, we're talking about

fuel grains about 10 feet in diameter and 10 feet long, booster segments for the Titan missile. When dealing with AP in those quantities, you do have to be careful. My reading indicates that raw AP is considerably more dangerous than the propellent. Of course, I'm not sure politicians are capable of understanding that distinction.

Larry

Allen Kezer wrote:

E-mail the reporters(see below) and correct thier unfounded statements. The company that had the accident does not do the APCP for the shuttle either. The shuttle APCP comes out of Utah last I knew.

By Linda Goldston, Frank Sweeney and Josh Susong Mercury News

Link to the e-mails for the reporters.

-Tim

I wonder if they are 1.3 or 1.2 in that configuration and also if the propellant had "energetic additives" that raise the hazard class above the 1.4s, 4.1, unregulated plastic our propellants test at.

Jerry

The mix technicians were in a remote bunker and behind TWO dirt berms :)

Not trying to be devil's advocate, but raw AP is, in fact, just about that unstable. Once mixed into APCP, it is very stable. If raw AP gets onto your clothes, a tiny amount of sweat will cause it spontaneously combust, as will high humidity, pressure, or just about anything. We just need to show the difference between raw AP and our fuel, APCP.

Raw AP can auto-ignite if dispersed into the air, it has no comparison to APCP which the best hobby rocketeers in this country often can't get to catch fire. ;-) .......can politicians be *that* stupid??!!

Chuck

They already DO understand the difference...it's not the propellant they are after, it is the rockets they are after. Going after apcp is only the means to that end. Art T South Jersey Area Rocketry Society NAR# 34201 L1

Chuck RudyYES!!!

Larry W. Hard I've been in that facility. To put this into perspective, we're talking aboutfuel grains about 10 feet in diameter and 10 feet long, booster segments forthe Titan missile. When dealing with AP in those quantities, you do have tobe careful. My reading indicates that raw AP is considerably moredangerous than the propellent. Of course, I'm not sure politicians arecapable of understanding that distinction.LarryAllen Kezer wrote:

Chuck

As long as you are getting techincal, what is the chemical thermal energy equivalence of hobby APCP to gasoline. E.g. when combusted, how many pounds of hobby APCP will release the same thermal energy as one gallon of gasoline in a residential fire?

Alan

That's the WHOLE point! Yes, they can! They'll use this info to twist their own agenda.

Exactly, but this type of article will just be more media coverage for their agenda.

Is that a rhetorical question?

Odd that we have survived handling endless tons of the stuff in the local fireworks factories here in ND for the past 17 years.......90 and 200 micron.....mixed with dichromated magnesium, magnalium, aluminum, nitrocellulose in acetone, red gum vinsol resin, charcoal.....

"dave1472" wrote in news:F%UYa.100462$YN5.70218@sccrnsc01:

Would somebody care to explain to me the chemistry involved here?

High humidity causes ammonium perchlorate to spontaneously combust?

len.

When oxidizers are made more mobile (as in liquid), they can become more reactive than they would be as a powder. The fuel is your clothing, the AP is the oxidizer and water is the transport solvent.

Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers

You know, in what's getting to be quite a few years of exposure to pyrotechnic and amateur rocketry uses of AP, I've never heard even rumors of either of these supposed "behaviors." Pyrotechnic compositions based on AP are frequently bound with water-soluble binders and water, and it's pretty tough to get AP to ignite without combining it with a fuel.

Does the original poster care to post a reference supporting these unfounded rumors?

BillW

snipped-for-privacy@propulsionpolymers.com (Marcus Leech) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com:

This was a standard high school science class demonstration, but it's probably too "dangerous" nowadays.

Get a large metal can (1' tall, 1' in diameter), make a small hole in the bottom for the stem of a small (2" diameter) funnel. Put the funnel stem through the hole, attach a long run of rubber tubing to the stem. Fill the funnel with flour. Place a small lighted candle in the can. Cover the can.

Blow into the tube. Watch enormous fireball emanate from can.

len.

My HS chemistry teacher did a blasting cap in a metal trash can (behind his lab table island).

I suspect he was breaking a few rules even then, buy hey. I'm not in jail like so many kids/adults these days, I have a job, unlike many, I actually ENJOY my job like painfully few and I am set for life.

More blasting caps in schools!!

Jerry

Arnie for Governor. Rocket motors in the governors mansion!

It was a total troll.

It only caught fire. It only "seemed" like an explosion due to the shrre volume and lots o surface area as found in a mixer.

Probably the motor burned out or the blade bent and scraped against the bowl.

Jerry