H-3 Jolly questions

I'm in the process of building an Aurora HH-3 Jolly Green Giant. I'm trying to make amends for the botched job I did as a kid (I overglued the rotors
and screwed up the hoist. Have the orginal square box, very cool.
The kit has a shield of some sort that fits in front of the intakes. Pictures, particularly Vitenam era ones don't always show it. What was it's purpose - foreign object deflector?, when was it fit?
The paint scheme has me a little confused. i though all Vietnam era USAF aircraft had the OD/geen/tan/grey scheme. The 2 pictures I have show 2 different Jollies with identical patterns but they only appear to be green (not OD)/tan/grey. I found another that appears to be mostly OD/Tan/Black! with some of the green.
Any thoughts, folks?
Frank
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On Mar 20, 3:39?pm, snipped-for-privacy@yahooo.com (Gray Ghost) wrote:

The comouflage scheme depends on when the photo was taken. Most CH-3/ HH-3 used in Vietnam did have the dark green/medium green/tan -- actually looked like desert pink after a few months/over very light gray scheme. I know of two that were overall black with no insignia. I don't know about the OD/tan/black scheme. I may have been used on the helo's supporting the Igloo White sensor program but I really don't know. HTH
Ed
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I worked on Jollys in the early '90s. The part in front of the intakes is indeed a FOD shield. The only paint schemes I am aware of, and I am in no way an expert, are the standard SEA scheme, the black scheme, and aircraft grey on CH-3s.
Vern
Gray Ghost wrote:

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On Mar 20, 2:39 pm, snipped-for-privacy@yahooo.com (Gray Ghost) wrote:

As indicated in a previous message, this is a FOD shield. I presented this same question to a former US Navy SH-3 crew member I worked since the SH-3 Sea King has an identical item. He indicated that ice tended to build up in the area above the cockpit and on the top of the fuselage forward of the engine air intakes. This shield kept ice from being blown into the intakes when it broke off in flight.

Download the USAF T.O. 1-1-4 EXTERIOR FINISHES, INSIGNIA AND MARKINGS, APPLICABLE TO USAF AIRCRAFT document at this link: http://www.cybermodeler.com/color/images/1-1-4.pdf Pages B-27, D-25, D-26, and D-27 show the "official" camouflage schemes for the H/CH-3s. These show the H/CH-3's ADC Gray (FS16473), Vietnam Jungle, Desert, and European One paint schemes. In addition, the H-3s also appeared in a silver lacquer and overall flat black scheme. The Squdron/Signal book, "H-53 Sea Stallion in Action", is an excellent and inexpensive reference that includes photos and illustrations of all of these H/CH-3 paint schemes.
BTW: The T.O. 1.1.4 document is a GOLD MINE of painting information for almost all recent past and current USAF aircraft. Links to similar documents for US Navy, USMC, and US Army aircraft paint schemes can be found at: http://www.cybermodeler.com/resource6.shtml
Martin IPMS 44668
Martin
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wrote:

You have to be cautious even with the Technical Order (TO 1-1-4). This thing changed every couple of years. I have one that has a date of 21 March 1978 for the basic document with a change number 12 dated 1981. Even the TO is only good for a certain period of time. My TO shows FS 16473 as the standard exterior color and camouflaged color schemes using: (1) Tan 30219 / Green 34079 / Green 34102 / Gray 36622 (2) Tan 20400 / Green 34079 / Brown 30140 / Gray 36622 (3) Gunship Green 34092 / Gunship Gray 36118 / Gunship Green 34102
HTH
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(Gray Ghost) wrote:

Well the camo pattern in the documemt more or less matches the photos I've seen of Vietnam era HH-3Es. But the markings are way off.
In particular it shows the national markings in 4 places both sides aft of the last window and on the lower fuselage and on the stabilizer. 30" for the first 3 and 25" for the last. I have 25" and 30" insignia in 1/72 and they all look huge compared to photos of 'Nam era markings. In some of the photos there are areas of a darker grey then the underside, a section under the visible national marking is apparently covering a larger insignia, over the USAF and the call numbers and on the nose. Another has just the small insignias on the sides and what appears to be USAF and the call number on the boom. The document all call for U. S. Air Force above the insignia but pictures show USAF on the tail boom forward of the call numbers. Generally no other markings are visible. Ocasionally you see yellow stenciling under the pilot/copilot window.
I found a couple of photos that shows an H-3 in perfect overall grey with all the correct markings from the TO but it's clearly a later photo.
Maybe the original decals were right, if yellowed. 2 small insignia, 2 USAF and 2 call numers.
Also no antiglare on the nose, correct? No pictures of camo birds even suggest this.
Anyone got or know of an older Air Force TO, maybe from '67-'68?
Fuel tanks seem to be a real hodge podge. All underside grey, all camo and half and half.
Otherwise, thanks for all the help so far.
PS I remembered why I couldn't finish it lo those many years ago. I botched the rotors with to much glue, but worst was the recovery winch. Given the limitations of the time I don't know how crtical I can be, but the winch is nearly unbulidable from the kit parts. The side supports just don't fit. I scratched new ones from 30 thou rod.
Maybe I'll post a picture on ABMS when this oldie is done. Just don't expect Tamigawa, Dragumpeter or Reveleri detail and quality. A nostalgia build.
Might take on the Aurora Skycrane next. Have it sitting open to inventory the parts. No drive shaft for the tail rotor, though. How do you miss that? Oh well, i have the Revel one too, doesn't look that hard to scratch, though I think I'll pass on the universal joints. Even have all of the old IMC battle damaged planes. Maybe an F-4 or A-1 slingloaded under it. ANyone know how they did that, permanent hoist points in the plane, some type of straps? Just from the winch or did they use the 4 outside hook points (for the modular thingie), too?
This will make you jealous. http://www.ch54skycrane.com/Model%20page7.htm
Frank
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Incredible detail! I'd have to quit work to accomplish such.... I think she'd say no...
Mike
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