Last Spit

That might have been in Malaya. The last unit flying Spits as front-line fighters was the Hong Kong Aux Air Force in 1955. The last official RAF mission of any sort (unless you count memorial flights) was probably a combat trial against RAF E.E. Lightnings in 1963 by a PR XIX, to prepare the British for possible combat against Indonesian P-51s.

Mark Schynert

I had written out a long reply here, full of reseaerched info, but my thrice-damned Windows(tm)-based system had a brain fart and vaped the whole lot, before I had a chance to save it.. If I can work up the enthusiasm to try again, I'll retype and repost it. But yes, Mike, Mark's right on this one - sort-of!

RobG (waiting for my new LINUX system)

What mark was it? A Mk22, 24??? Will the airfix kit be good out of the box???

Keith Walker

: > > I was reading that the last Spitfire( Mk?) flew : > > the last operational mission of the long line of : > > its breed( starting at 1938 at Duxford) in : > > 1952 " some where in the MiddleEast" Any : > > one know what Mk and what squadron and : > > where in the 'Middle East' this event occured? : > > Now theres a model to make. : > > Mike IPMS : > >

: > >

: >

: > That might have been in Malaya. The last unit flying Spits as front-line : > fighters was the Hong Kong Aux Air Force in 1955. The last official RAF : > mission of any sort (unless you count memorial flights) was probably a : > combat trial against RAF E.E. Lightnings in 1963 by a PR XIX, to prepare : > the British for possible combat against Indonesian P-51s. : >

: > Mark Schynert : :

FWIW The aircraft was a Mk.19 Photo Reconnaissance bird and the mission was over communist Guerilla areas in Malaya IIRC.

Bill Shuey

Scorpian wrote:

The Battle of Britain Memorial Flight has just painted one of their PR.19's in the scheme worn by that Spit, complete with the nose art! There's an article in this month's Fly Past magazine.

Incidentally, the Met Flight at RAF Woodvale in Lancashire last flew a PR.19 on a weather sortie in 1957! I worked with a very ancient RAF Warrant Officer who fitted the cameras to it!

Chris

According to all my Spitfire refs - the last OPERATIONAL flight of a Spitfire IN RAF SERVICE was on 1st April 1954 when a PR19 serial PS888 belonging to the Station Flight at RAF Seletar, Singapore made a THUM (Temporature and HUMidity) flight.

All later Spitfire flights were NOT in RAF service - they may have been in the RAF Auxiliary Air Force or other units - but were not 'operational' with the RAF.

The Met Flight at RAF Woodvale was a civilain THUM Unit and made 4,000 meteorological flights using Spitfires until they were replaced by Mosquitos in June 1957.

At least that's what my books say.....

Ken

Well, the cameras were fitted and maintained by RAF personnel - WO Joe Dunbar was a legend in the "trade" and I made him a model of PS 915 to mark his retirement after 37 years' service.

Incidentally, Dr Alfred Price maintains in his book "The Spitfire Story" that the THUM Flight at Woodvale was RAF and that they flew the last sorties - as opposed to the "operational" Sqn sortie from Seletar.

He also states that the very last "operational" task carried out by a Spitfire was a sortie against some Binbrook Lightnings in 1963! Apparently, they wanted to see if a Lightning could get a "lock-on" against a fast moving piston-engined fighter, as the Lightnings were expecting to go up against Indonesian P-51s during the Indonesian Crisis in Borneo. The Spifire PR 19 was available and PS 853 was flown. There's a nice photo on page 216 of the aforementioned book.

HTH

Chris

I have read about the tests versus the Lightning.

Apparently the Lighning jock had a great deal of trouble getting an IR lock onto the Spit - and had to slow right down to even get a guns solution.

The outcome was that the Lightning would have found it very difficult to down a P-51 - either with a Firestreak/Red Top or cannon - but could dictate the terms of the fight and disengage at will.

I think they decided that the best way to down a Spit/P-51 was to fly past very close and then accelerate and topple the P-51 with the afterburner/jetwash !!

The Spit in these tests was indeed from the BBMF - but I don't think that it counts as being 'operational' with the RAF - it was not 'on the books' so to speak - any more than the Lanc is operational.

I suppose it all depends on the definition of 'operational'

Although, come to think of it - isn't HMS Victory still 'in commission' with the Royal Navy ???

Ken

Right, let's try again, saving as we go... and this will bear no resemblance to my previous, aborted post!

For reference, I'm using 'Spitfire - A Complete Fighting History' (it's not, but it's got lots of good pics in it!) by Alfred Price, and the Scale Aviation Modeller publication 'The Supermarine Spitfire - Pt 2 Griffon-powered', No 5 in their Modellers Datafile series. It's good - not perfect, but good. These will be referred to as Price and SAM respectively.

Caveat - I claim no great expertise in the Spitfire (I prefer Mr Hawker's products) but these two books do seem to cover the topic under discussion and I have a bit of time on my hands. So, here we go...

First, the Spit vs EEL combats. Price has a chapter written by AVM John Nicholls, who was Wingco in charge of the Air Fighting Development Sqn in '63 (no exact dates given), stationed at RAF Binbrook (home of the RAFs EELs). They had posession of a Spit PR Mk XIX that had been intended for mounting as a gate guard, but had instead been kept flyable. This a/c, serial PS853 (from the photo, confirmed by SAM - now flying with the BoB Memorial Flight, I believe), was used to simulate a P-51 as operated by Indonesia at the time of the Indonesian Crisis, just in case the Poms had to go to war against the 51s. The upshot was that the EEL *could* win the combat, just as long as the pilot was good and kept his head. Not that it would have been easy - the Spit was a very poor infra-red target for the early IR missiles, the rate of closure was such that it gave the jet-jock very little time to fire cannon (works both ways) and the Spit could most certainly out-turn the Lightning - at any speed! Best attack method was to use the jet's superior (!) climbing ability to attack from behind and below (poor vis from the Spit, surprise and the best infra-red sig). If the EEL pilot missed, he could continue to climb away and turn around for another go with cannon. Although one would think that the Spit (or 51) pilot would by that time have shoved the throttle through the firewall and made a very swift dive for whatever cover may have been handy, pushing the old girl downhill as fast as he could! The EEL used in the trials (from the photo) was XP695, an F Mk 3, which flew until 15/3/84, then was used as an airfield decoy (oh, the shame) then scrapped in Sept '87 (from the SAM about the EEL). It's interesting that the F Mk 3 didn't carry cannon - it would make a second pass fairly pointless! These missions marked the last official operational RAF sortie of a Spit, according to AVM Nicholls, although not a combat op.

As an aside, in the summer of '65, F 3s from RAF No 111 Sqn managed to intercept a U-2 out of Lakenheath, at close to the U-2s operational altitude -quite a shock for the USAF! Enough on the Lightning - my fetish is showing!

Back to Spits. Looking at SAM, we find that the last operational sortie of an RAF Spitfire was with No 81 Sqn, in PR Mk XIX, PS 888, 1st April 1954, with Sqn Ldr W P Swaby at the stick. 'In the Far East' is all it says, but Price adds that it was a PR flight in support of the anti-terrorist (his words) ops in Malaya, so a bit of research would tell you where in Malaya No

81 was stationed at the time.

That wasn't strictly an offensive sortie, though. That honour belongs to No

60 Sqn, flying F Mk XVIIIs in Malaya. SAM says that the last offensive sortie by an RAF Spitfire squadron was on Jan 1st, 1951, when suspected terrorist bases were attacked in the Kota Tinggi area of Johore. Unfortunately, no individual a/c info is given, but a look at the squadron's ops book should give you the details - have fun and let me know!

HOWEVER... welcome to the delights of research. SAM goes on to say (in a different chapter) that No 80 Sqn was transferred to Kai Tak, Hong Kong in

1949 (from Gutersloh, Germany), with their F Mk 24s. The Mk 24s stayed until Jan 1952, when No 80 re-equipped with the dH Hornet. I'll quote from SAM, and you can make of it what you will.

"No 80 Sq had been deployed to Kai Tak due to the increasing tension in Malaya, and indeed on the Chinese mainland, as a result of the struggle which saw the Communists, led by Mao Tse Tung take control and oust the Nationalist government which fled to Formosa. Such events caused grave concerns in London as to the future of Hong Kong, then under lease to the British Government, hence the decision to deploy No 80's sixteen aircraft to Kai Tak. Despite the harsh conditions under which it was forced to operate, the F Mk 24 proved itself to be more than able to meet the challenge imposed upon it, with no losses being sustained as a result of operations, although some were damaged in landing and taking-off accidents."

This seems to indicate that the a/c where flown regularly, but the lack of combat details seems to mitigate against actual combat. More confusion follows on from above in SAM. No 80 Sqn tranferred their F 24s to the Royal Hong Kong AuxAF, who operated them from May 52 until Jan 15th 1955, when the last official flight was made. BUT... I quote SAM again.

"However, three Spitfires, two F Mk 24s and a PR Mk XIX, participated in a fly-past to celebrate the Queen's birthday on the 21st April. The flight over, all three a/c returned to Kai Tak, with F Mk 24 VN485 being the last to land. This flight is generally accepted as being the last FRONT-LINE OPERATIONAL SORTIE (caps mine) undertaken by a Spitfire in any form of British service." But not an offensive or combat op. VN485 is preserved at Duxford.

A lot of foreign nations used Spitfires after the war, but most were gone by the late '40s. The French replaced their Seafire Mk XVs in 1950, Egypt used their F Mk 22s until 1958, as trainers, Southern Rhodesia had F Mk 22s until

1955 and the Royal Indian AF kept theirs until 1957 (Mk XIV and FR MK XVIIIe with No 14 Sqn). Burma(!) kept their de-navalised Seafire MXVs until 1958, replacing them with Sea Furies. There were others as well, mostly in the smaller, poorer nations who kept them until about the same time. As far as combat use goes, Sth Rhodesia may have had opportunity against insurgents, Egypt certainly used their Mk IXs against British Mk XVIIIs (no contest, really) in May of 1948 (quite a story, that one!) and India may have had a go too. Details are up to you to fnd here!

To summarise, with everything in date order (RAF ops only): May 1948 - Egyptian Mk Vs vs RAF Jan 1st, 1951 - Mk XVIIIs of No 60 Sqn RAF in Malaya (anti-terrorist op in Kota Tinggi area of Johore)

- Jan 1952 - Mk 24s of No 80 Sqn RAF at Kai Tak (probably no combat)

1st April 1954 - PR Mk XIX PS 888 of No 81 Sqn in Malaya (anti-terrorist PR op) 15 Jan 1955 - F Mk 24 RHKAuxAF (Regular ops - no combat?) 21st April 1955 - F Mk 24 VN485 of RHKAuxAF (Queen's Birthday flypast - last to land of three ship formation) 1963 - PR Mk XIX of AFDS at RAF Binbrook (mock combat with EEL)

You pick the one you think is the 'right' one. I hope this helps, if only to add to the confusion. Have fun,

RobG

And I found these sites that may be of interest:

Mike Keown wrote in message news:j%mec.175$ snipped-for-privacy@news.uswest.net...

PS888 flew the last RAF operational (as in actual combat situation) sortie - it was marked as The Last on the nose. The RAF BoB flight has repainted one of their aircraft in this scheme this year

Don't reply to the btconnect address - and remove nospam!!

Dave - can you point us in the direction of a picture or artwork?

RobG

Medium sea grey upper surfaces, PRU Blue undersides

PS915 is the 'current' aircraft, photo shows PS888 Don't reply to the btconnect address - and remove nospam!!