GE Little Joe colors

In 1949 the Milwaukee Road tested a GE electric locomotive for three months on their Coast and Rocky Mountain divisions. This demonstrator was numbered GE750 and was painted olive green with a white stripe. I have several photos of this locomotive but they are in black and white. The Milwaukee Road purchased 12 of these electrics the following year and nicknamed them Little Joes.
I have an HO brass model of GE750 and want to paint it in the GE demostrator colors. Has anyone ever seen a color photo of this or any other locomotive in GE's "olive green" paint, and does anyone know an existing paint that duplicates or approximates this color?
(to reply remove Boeing jet from address) ______________ C. Marin Faure Seattle, Washington Bellingham, Washington

C. Marin Faure wrote:
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Milwaukee used the orange and maroon scheme on these locos.

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Correct. But before the Milwaukee purchased their Little Joes they tried one out for three months. This locomotive was painted by GE and was "olive green with a white stripe." This is the paint scheme I want to apply to the model I have, not the Milwaukee's orange-maroon-black scheme.
I model the Milwaukee's electrified Coast Division circa 1949. The Little Joes weren't purchased by the Milwaukee Road until 1950, and they weren't used on the Coast Division anyway. However, GE750 was operated on that division for awhile. Hence my reason for wanting to paint my model to duplicate GE750.
The twelve Little Joes the Milwaukee eventually bought included the GE demonstrator. GE750 was given the Milwaukee's paint scheme and was numbered E70. E70/GE750 still exists on display in Montana.
(to reply remove Boeing jet from address) ______________ C. Marin Faure Seattle, Washington Bellingham, Washington

C. Marin Faure wrote:
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Sorry, I was reading carelessly, and missed this. I hope you find some indication of the correct colour. I don't have any data on it.
Good hunting!

C. Marin Faure wrote:
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Yes, I've seen a color photo of it. Problem is, I can't recall WHERE at the moment. I'm pretty sure it was published in a book. IIRC, it was in one of the usual color books currently out, likely one of the several "Milwaukee Road in Color" volumes. Other possibilities are any of several books on electric locos or on the milwaukee electriciation.
Of course, the usual cautions apply ... you CAN'T trust ANY old color photo to be definitive on color values, especially after it's been transferred to a book with all the added printing issues.
If I get a chance, I'll look for the photo, but this is not the best time of year for me to do such, as I'm VERY busy with other things (I'm probably not alone with THAT situation).
Dan Mitchell ===========

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Thank you for your response. I agree that a color photo in a book is very likely to misrepresent an actual paint color, particulary an old color photo dating from 1949. However I'll be happy to at least get in the ballpark with the olive green paint GE applied to their Little Joe demonstrator.
(to reply remove Boeing jet from address) ______________ C. Marin Faure Seattle, Washington Bellingham, Washington

C. Marin Faure wrote:
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As has often been pointed out here, the prototypes varied in color from one to another due to the railroad paint shops using a variety of paint manufacturers and the lack of controls from one batch of paint to another that today's technology allows. Even the same paint manufacturer couldn't reproduce the same hue perfectly each time back in those days.

Rick Jones wrote:
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Very true, but here we're' talking about ONE locomotive. So, obviously it had just ONE color. It didn't even last long enough in that scheme to have faded much, so the color is pretty much a constsant.
The problem is in deciding exactly WHAT that color was, a bit more definitively than 'olive green'. That term covers a HUGE variety of colors from near chartrueses to PRR "Brunswick Green" (near black). It also includes all the various "Pullman Greens" and the various "Army Greens". Just go to the paint area of any military hobby shop and look at all the different U.S. Army olives that have been used over the years (not even mentioning foreign military colors).
As I recall (aways supect) the one color photo of this GE "Joe" I've seen, it was painted a slightly light shade of what might be called "Pullman Green" ... definitely showing a nice "Olive" color, and not nearly black.
Now I just gott'a have time to search for where I saw this photo ... I'm pretty sure it was in a fairly recent (maybe five years back) book or magazine.
Dan Mitchell ==========Dan Mitchell ===========

On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 05:12:04 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@747earthlink.net (C. Marin Faure) wrote:
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If yo can find out the DuPont number (or other manufacturers number) of the paint used you can probably get more info. If you approach GE's PR department they may be able to find out. Or if they don't have the info find out if GE donated old records to an archive somewhere it may be there. (examples: A lot of CN's are at the National Archives of Canada, GN has a lot at the Minnesota State Archives and the GNRHS has a lot of GN stuff at the roundhouse in Minneapolis as does the NPRHA for NP).

If the colour was 'Olive Green' then just get a tin of any hobby paint labelled 'Olive Green' and use it. Who's going to prove you wrong after this length of time? Too much time and energy is wasted in trying to match colours of half a century ago! Regards, Bill.
(C. Marin
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I would not recommend using plain martini olive green. The GE builders photo in the Holley book shows the green to be much darker, and with a very distinct contrast to the white stripe, setting off the stripe nicely. I believe that company photographers sometimes used orthochromatic film for their photos which could be distorting the green, but the picture of GE750 meeting the Olympian Hi in the Scribbins book shows the same darker gray for the green area on the GE and shows the usual panchromatic shades of gray for the adjacent orange and maroon passenger car. So I think a green darker than a martini olive color would be both more correct, and better looking. Geezer

Did GE use an olive green for any other products or logos at the time? Maybe if you expand your search you will at least find a similar dark olive that, if not precisely the one used on the Little Joe, is at least a GE color of the era? Even better if you can find an olive green GE diesel demonstrator unit. But you've probably explored this, huh?
Dale
Still trying to figure out the exact green of the Puget Sound Electric Ry... :)

This doesn't help at all, but in the mid 70s I was putting together a homemade air compressor. A friend who worked for the CM&StP gave me an air tank to use. He said it was pulled from one of the Little Joes. FWIW, it's black :) The air pressure gauge is from the CM&StP too, but it was an NOS EMD unit. I like using a compressor with some history to it, anyway...
Dale
I wonder how many little pieces of lost locos are in railfan's garages?

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I've not come across anything like that. The twenty Little Joes were known at GE as the GE 750-Type, and they were ordered originally by the USSR's 5-foot gauge state railroad. As they were being built relations with the USSR soured to the point where the export of strategic items to the USSR was banned, including railroad equipment. So the 15th 750-Type coming off the assembly line was gauged to 4'8-1/2", painted "olive green," given the number GE750, and sent off as a demonstrator to the Milwaukee Road in hopes that GE could find a buyer for the twenty locomotives they were now unable to sell to the Soviet Union.
I assume locomotives 1 through 14 had been painted as they were completed. So perhaps the "olive green" GE used on GE750 was simply the same color that had been applied to the first 14 locomotives, and was the color specified by the Soviet Railway.
I have acquired HO models of various pre- and post-WWII European electric locomotives during trips overseas, and the two most predominant colors used were black and various shades of "olive green." So perhaps the answer to the Little Joe "olive green" question actually lies with the Soviet Railway of the 1940s....
(to reply remove Boeing jet from address) ______________ C. Marin Faure Seattle, Washington

On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 23:07:00 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@747earthlink.net (C. Marin Faure) wrote:
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Good point. You could probably just buy an airplane model of an I-16 or export P-39 in Soviet colors, use the paint they suggest, and come pretty close :)
Dale
My trolling for "PSE Green" suggestions obviously failed :)