Rally Vendor Stalls

I've been having a think about the seeming decline in the stalls at rallies, whether engine or steam.

In the past 5 or 6 years there seems to have been a marked change in the type of stall and goods available, to the point now where we have the situation where it is almost a rarity to see anyone selling anything half decent.

I know that Mac McGowan has often said that stationary engine owners were too reluctant to put their hands in their pockets, but it seems to go beyond that, and his view is not universally shared by all stall holders, and stationary engine owners are not the only buyers.

Tool stalls come into two general categories: The "£1 for any item" on the table sort of stall where the quality is pretty awful but you get a lot of tat for your money, or the more general secondhand tool guy who, as we noted last week, is getting expensive to the point where we buy nothing at all.

Stalls selling engine bits and pieces are almost extinct now, mainly because of the cost of the pitch at a decent rally and the unknown profit margin. Enstone and Sodbury are liable to provide richer pickings, and the frequency of these sales probably give enough cash flow to cover the rallies that are missed.

Astle Park is probably the last show that sees a decent number of stalls that are worth browsing, Lister-Petter has declined seriously over the years and the Fairford sale has been largely replaced by Enstone.

Lastly, Ebay has taken over as the supplier/market stall of choice for a lot of people, allowing pleasurable on-line browsing from a huge variety of vendors both here and abroad. Sellers have a known cost base and prices continue to surprise us all.

This can only continue for the foreseeable future, and eventually it will lead to the demise of the stalls as we have known them. It will never completely replace them, however, but I cannot see any other outcome.

Is my analysis correct or am I missing something?

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes Email: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk Web:

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Reply to
Peter A Forbes
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I personally think your analysis is correct Peter. I also feel the demise of the UK engineering/manufacturing industries has led to a loss of the supply source these stalls rely on, so pushing prices up. On a more pessimistic note I seem to recall that along with an increased number of bankruptcies (which we are currently seeing) the decline in number of a lot of market stalls were among things that seemed to occur not long before we went into the last recession. I sincereley hope I'm wrong on that last point.

Regards

JohnR

Reply to
JohnR

The GDSF is of course another good rally for such stalls. Incidently it must be remembered that another possible reason for the decline in stalls at rallies is due to the ever growing use of the classified section of SEM, which is now free to everybody other than buisnesses.

Mike M

miley snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com

Reply to
miley_bob

I think you may be right about eBay and SEM. The catchment area for Enstone is relatively small compared to the others so where is the incentive for a seller to drive for miles to be faced with realtively few potential purchasers. eBay is cheap, trouble free and international whereas Enstone always seems cold and generally wet. The tool and general engineering stalls still seem to thrive. These seem split into new or second hand stuff. New gets you quite a lot of stuff for your =A3 provided a factory in China is making it. The second hand stalls can still have a pearl or two hidden in the rust. Both cater for a wider market than just staionary engines. As a group, the people on here are not young. That means they have most of what they want so are very selective. There seems to be a general harking back to days (and prices) past. Sellers want to make money so, rather like the corner shop, they have to evolve or go. Ultimately we, as buyers, dictate that outcome. My wife comes with me to Enstone. God knows why, she's not the least bit interested in engines. Her observation is that the same stuff just keeps going round the same group of Dibner clones. The amount of new stuff introduced into the group is fairly small. Now this selling around of stuff must decline whenever someone decides to keep some of it. How often does anyone here pull a new discovery out of a barn? The supply of second hand engineering stuff will also decline as the source is drying up. The UK is not a manfacturing country anymore. The stuff we do make is so high tech that the throw outs are specialised and of little general use. Micrometers are long dead. These days digital systems are used, generally with their outputs fed directly back into the production process as closed loop error correction. The detection systems are laser based and the whole thing cannot be stuffed in a pocket so never finds it's way to us. Not that it matters as a factory in China can sell me a digital vernia for about =A325. The final point is that the engines of interest are also reducing. No one wants a cheap Chinese thing and the last collectible brit piece is now about 50 years old and getting scarce. Rather like old motor bikes, the supply is limited so the prices will go up and the availability will drop. No one is going to go to an Enstone unless they have a number of items to sell. If these items are all expensive, they are unlikely to sell as the buyers are mostly there on impulse. There are still a good number of lawn mower engines around though! One day mine may be priceless.

John

Reply to
John

There is a double edge to this, the buying side who are looking for a 'goodie' and the selling side looking to shift some junk out of the garage, plus the inevitable dealers and their would-be counterparts.

You are probably right about machine tools, note how prices of turret mills are gradually creeping up after a low of 15 months ago, when we bought the Beaver for £500 as the only bidder, and now they are getting on for £1 in much worse condition than ours. These are probably the peak of home workshop equipment, as the next stage up is multi-axis stuff and nobody wants one of those in the garage!

Chinese stuff is everywhere, almost everything you buy now is made there, it comes as a welcome relief to see "Made in Japan"! where once that was the cheapest manufacturing centre before Taiwan then China and now India take on the mantle.

Regarding lawn mower engines, we are looking at a starter engine for the Caterpillar engines, and at 2.2litres each they do take a bit of spinning over, so we have a long-abandoned Suffolk Punch in the workshop, complete with its centrifugal clutch, so a scheme is forming....

I don't think they will ever be priceless though :-))

Peter

-- Peter A Forbes Prepair Ltd, Luton, UK snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk

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Reply to
Prepair Ltd

Whilst it's true that the Japanese were ridiculed for there offering and then they became a serious force to be reckoned with so the Chinese have taken this mantle upon themselves.

However there the similarity ends, Japan forced itself to become self sufficient by product improvement which in turn generated capital to expand.

China has millions of pounds of foreign money being shoveled to it by other countries eager to get a good return on capital. Most retirement funds are now Chinese based in generated income. Just think, all that dosh you put in your pension is going to China to be invested to make you redundant quicker, just plain fact.

Another thing to think on is that cheap labour aside they are investing in machinery the like that this country hasn't even seen or is likely to with all production going direct to China.

-- Regards,

John Stevenson Nottingham, England.

Visit the new Model Engineering adverts page at:-

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Reply to
John Stevenson

Just one thing really, the fact that Ebay (and probably competitive sites in the future) are going to wipe out virtually all specialist shops, stalls etc over the next few years, it's pretty much inevitable if you talk to those in the retail trade. In fact, many are only keeping their real shops open now because their suppliers won't deal with people who only have virtual shops, an approach that can't last as so many are finding ways around it. For all that people complain about Ebay's costs it's still far cheaper than rates, rent etc. so they can sell far cheaper. Greg

Reply to
Greg

The nature of eBay i changing though. Traders are now inflating thier prices, and after 6 years with eBay as my first port of call I am now looking elsewhere. Television advertising has brought a lot of new purchasers in, and they don't have the old school cameraderie (and dare I say integrity) that used to be the order of the day. In 6 years I had not had a bad deal until the last 2 or 3 months. Also there are now too many idiots paying way over the odds for things they could even buy in their local shops for a lot less.

eBay will only get worse. It is now too big, and dominated by traders. The original attraction of being able to deal with an individual disposing of their surplus, and also to pass on your own items is all but gone is some categories, and with false descriptions abounding it is getting harder and harder to find anything interseting.

I recall eBay starting up, and gradually replacing yahoo auctions. The same will happen with eBay. Someone will start up the old style auction "community" and we can all have a reunion there until it the story repeats itself.

Google has gone the same way. It is now virtually impossible to find general information with all the sponsored links misdirecting you.

Reply to
alspam1

I grow more and more pleased to be within an hour or so drive of both Sodbury (at Newbury!) and Enstone as the number and standard of engine related junk stalls at rallies continues to decline. Is it really the cost of the pitch - the car boot sale type stalls with old furniture, a few china plates and old children's toys etc still seem to flourish? Some of the best picking are often to be had from exhibitors, and Astle park seems unique in encouraging this 'bring and buy' aspect with its club sales area.

Ebay may be useful for complete engines, major spares and consumables, but I don't see how it can ever replace the 'rummaging experience where that seemingly inconsequential little part at the bottom of a box turns out to be just what you needed - particularly as you often didn't even realise you needed it until you saw it!

Finally, chatting to the folk at Forest Classics last week (ok not junk, but always an interesting stand), it seems that stall holders at some rallies have the same sort of complaints that one often hears from exhibitors - bad organisation, not getting the space they were promised/paid for, and generally being treated as if the rally organisers were doing them a favour rather than being regarded as an important part of the show.

Reply to
Nick H

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