messagenews:7 snipped-for-privacy@bt.com...
flux for everything. Don't get me wrong, but
I couldn't agree more! The need for extra flux indicates poor materials, tools or technique.
MBQ
messagenews:7 snipped-for-privacy@bt.com...
flux for everything. Don't get me wrong, but
I couldn't agree more! The need for extra flux indicates poor materials, tools or technique.
MBQ
If you are just starting out I think it totally unnecessary to pass power via other than rail joiners. If the track is clean (a ward file will see to that) and the joiners in good condition ( they can be pinched a little to obtain good contact and all of it cleaned using any CTC type cleaner). You will without any doubt, change your mind several times before settling on an arrangement - that is the time to adopt measures for permenant under rail feeds. If you are using Ni rail it should easily solder with LMP resin cored electronic application type solder using a 15 Watt iron. Higher wattages are excessive and indicate dirty material. There is nothing to stop you sweating joiners to the rail leaving a dry joint bridged by a flexy wire every so often ( 3 full sections ). There will be no volts drop across a 10 ft ( 3M) section thus treated. in any case , when you become confident and wish to construct gradients it will be the Steel track which gives best grip and there you will have soldering problems!
Peter Abraham wrote: [...] If the track is clean (a ward
Er, I would strongly advise against using a file or any kind of abrasive to clean track. It will leave tiny scratches on the rail head which will attract goop and gunk, and eventually you will have dirtier track than before. Such scratches also promote arcing, especially during dry weather. Arcing will pit drive wheels, which then pick up goop and gunk better than ever.
Use a contact cleaner. A solution of isopropyl alcohol and water (about half and half) plus a drop or two of dish detergent, also works. Some people have reported excellent results with metal polishing paste, the kind that cleans up the silver and brass and leaves an anti-tarnish layer, but I haven't tried that yet.
HTH
I should extend that to say the sides and floor section which come in contact with the joiner although I am very happy to use crocus paper on the rail running surface.
If there's no soldered cinnection it will fail eventually, believe me.
You must be deaf, poor fellow.
In case your thinking of giving up by the shear quantity of frequently excellent advice then you could consider trying the same method as someone thats hopeless with planning and soldering as well as too impatient. Wack it down as best you can, keeping soldered lumps as low as possible then disguise the worst bits with paint, ballast and the occasional tree. Then you can get on with playing trains.
Only other thing is dont invite experts round for tea and a visit to the layout.
Cheers, Simon
However, the OP on this thread is a self confessed starter and probably does not have a lot of experience in soldering. One of the benefits of using flux is that it prevents the formation of oxides on clean metal when it is heated, so advising a beginner to use some suitable flux will help him to avoid poor results which are caused by oxidisation while he is trying to get heat into the metal.
Perhaps in a year or two he will have gained a lot more experience which will allow him to use cored solder without additional flux, but in the meantime, he's looking for a reasonable result now.
Jim.
"Erik Olsen DK" wrote
A mate of mine has a layout which he's been building and developing for 30 years and relies on rail joiners to provide the electrical connection between rails. No sign of any failure on that, but I guess 'eventually' is a long time.
John.
I, and I'm sure 1000s of others, never used extra flux when first using cored solder. The OP should be using clean track and cored solder (materials), a soldering iron suitable for the job (tools) and learning the correct technique from the start using a few pieces of spare track to practice on. Once he gets in to the habit of faffing with extra flux he'll probably never break it.
The only time I would use extra flux (but don't always) is if two pre- tinned components are being joined without using any fresh solder.
MBQ
The fish plate should be soldered to one rail with the other left free to move for expansion/contraction during temperature changes. If you are consisten then you do get a soldered connection to every piece of rail. The solder will wick in between the fishplate and the rail laeving no unsightly blob. Any excess is easily cleaned up with solder wick and painted over.
MBQ
Absolutely! ( You are not a senior membr of the labour party by any chance?)
Ha, ha.
Jim Guthrie wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:
Sorry Jim but I do have to disagree, bog standard, cheap as chips multi- cored electrical solder from any high street shop is the right thing to do. Soldering leads to rail or joiners is not difficult either through the materials or technique involved. Even if a person has never soldered before a very short time practicing will get them up to speed. Clean rail, hot iron, tin the wire and Bob's your uncle - faffing about with additional fluxes, special techniques does nothing but complicate matters and make things more difficult for a beginner ... remember the old saying, "Learn to walk before you can run"
Rail is reasonably inexpensive - a yeard to under two quid, likewise wire and bog standard solder is dirt cheap I'd advise the OP to simply have a play for an hour after tea one night this isn't a skill that's going to take any longer to pick up.
Chris,
Here's the URL of a fact sheet from Brian Lewis' C&L web site. I only quote this since it is an easy way of presenting the information I myself have gleaned on fluxes over the years.
Quite honestly, what I would call the real black art in soldering is the use of cored solder on its own when you are not soldering pre-tinned electronic components or PCB. Cored wire solder was designed for that sort of work. Once you get away from that fairly controlled environment, then you can start hitting problems. When you want flux on a joint you've got to melt solder. If the amount of solder you melt is what is required, then fine. If it is too much, then out comes the solder sucker or wick, and that can really be faffing around. If you don't melt enough - lousy joint, or no joint.
For example, with rail you have to tin it, and that can be a problem if you can't get enough flux out of the cored solder before the rail starts oxidising. I can do it with cored solder on its own because I've been soldering for 50+ years. But I know it takes a fair bit of experience to get 100% satisfaction in all cases, and that I can get guaranteed results much easier by using a very small amount of flux on the cleaned metal.
I don't see that applying a smidgeon of flux on the end of a cocktail stick or a small paintbrush can be termed faffing about, especially when I can be pretty sure that the solder has wicked through the joint, helped by the action of the flux.
Jim.
PS. I suspect that if the subject heading on this thread was building a brass etched kit, then advocating the use of cored solder on its own would be laughed out of court. :-)
Jim Guthrie wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:
....
I suppose it's what you're used to, don't want to fall out with anyone over this.
Weeellllll ... I have read a couple of articles in the various magazines by chaps who said that they use nothing else. In fact I have a book in the garage (my railway room) that's all about making miniature semaphore signals, brass/white metal/wire etc and the chap who wrote that IIRC mentioned that again he uses nothing but ...
... however when it comes to brass and fixing brass to other metals I do reach for rush and flux. :-)
Neither do I :-)
Jim.
Youve lost me with that reference, but the answer would be 'has hell frozen over ?'
So we all agree then ...
Use cored solder with a modest amount of seperate flux but dont use any additional flux - templers is the best. If using brass rails then most people do use flux. Imperitive to solder both sides of fishplates for a good connection but best if just one and none is just as good. If the joint is not soldered then it will definately break eventually, although for some people, this will be after at least 30 years. Do not rely on fishplates for electrical connection but they can be used to pass electricity between rails at the non soldered, soldered joint. As you are not using fishplate for connection you must solder to the underside of the rail so dont forget to plan position of rail droppers. However you do not need extra connections for each piece of rail where that rail is connected to another rail as long as the fishplate at the joint is soldered - although it doesnt need to be.
Cheers, Simon
John,
If you've got any Carrs 188 solder paint, dunk your bit in that. It does a lovely job of re-tinning a bit.
Jim.
My tale of failure was not abot breaking, but electrically.
Do not rely on fishplates for electrical connenction. Period.
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