I am finally ready to start laying track but there is one aspect that I am unsure about. I have a couple of junctions that will straddle a join in the boards so I can place points either side of the join and connect them with a short piece of track fixed to a strip of pcb. The question is how short a piece of track can I reasonabley get away with? If it is too long it will upset the geometry but it will have to be long enough to cater for the pcb strip across at an angle and still leave a few sleepers to hold the rail,I would guess a minimum 2 inches (1 inch for each side of the join). Would it be best not to cut the sleeper chair retaining the rail and not use a rail joiner, relying on the pinning for stability or would there be sufficient stability to the rail if held by a joiner and soldered to the pcb not to need sleepers at all of at least only the minimum number.
This is the arrangement I have come up with, and which gives reasonably satisfactory performance - not perfect but generally fine:-
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I specifically avoided having any pointwork near the joint because of the various problems it could cause, but then even try to avoid pointwork across any baseboard joint, whether it be lifting or not.
If you've no alternative, then give it a go. The joining piece of track could be no more than an inch long, providing you can solder it in place and cut through, I don't see there would be a major issue providing the coming together of the boards are soundly engineered.
Brief explanation - the brass bolts visible on my baseboard joint provide crude vertical alignment and carry the +ve and -ve wiring for the DCC power. The partially visible clamp on the left provides horizontal alignment. Sorry the picture's crap, it was a very quick effort.
If the joint is there because you will be frequently moving the baseboards, then use flex track on either side of the joint, even if you have handlaid track elsewhere. It makes realignment on reassembly much easier. The problem with pcb-fixed track is that it's too stiff. Baseboard joints are places where track must be able to flex a bit.
Use a removable piece of track, 3" or longer; a one inch piece doesn't have enough flexibility, and will likely introduce an angle at the rail joint. Fasten this filler piece in place with rail joiners (fish plates) only. Do not solder them; but you may wish to solder feed wires to them. Also, the last inch or two of the track on either side of the joint must not be fixed in place, so that, when slight misalignments that occur whenever you reassemble the baseboards, the approach tracks can be aligned with the filler piece. You also need some method to align the baseboards accurately each time they are reassembled, which is a whole 'nother issue.
If the joint is there because that's the way you built it, just build across it. When and if you need to move the layout, cut through the rail with a fine-tooth saw or cut-off disk. A filler piece is not necessary, but if you feel better about including a short piece of filler track, then do so. In that case, use rail joiners, but do not solder them. Instead, solder feed wires to the filler piece's rails. Again, leave the tracks on either side of the joint loose, so that on re-assembly you can align them with each other or the re-installed filler piece.
NB that unless frequent dis/assembly is required, baseboard joints should be rigid. Drive screws through both end pieces, or fasten them tightly with bolts.
If the joint occurs at a movable bridge or gate, then somewhat more elaborate engineering is required to ensure proper alignment every time the bridge/gate is opened and closed. In this case, you have to rely on the engineering of the substructure to maintain alignment. Wedges and bolts work well for this. You also need some interlocked power feed so that trains don't run into the chasm. I've seen guard rails (check rails) installed on either side of the rail joint, to keep the bogies running straight through the joint. I don't know if this improves matters or not. But track on a movable bridge or gate must be fixed in place.
A final piece of unsolicited advice: flex track is generally a much better choice than handlaid track if you are using a commercially supported gauge such as 16.5mm. It looks good, will hold its gauge, and requires minimal fastening to keep it in place.
Looks like a hinged drop-down or lift-up leaf on the right, is that so? Do you use a wedge underneath to bring the leaf into horizontal alignment every time it's closed? As mentioned in my other post, I've seen guard rails across the joints in such cases. They are be soldered in place, then cut along with the running rails. If installed to minimum clearances per NMRA or Finescale standard (whichever you use) they will keep the wheels from picking the joint. That's the theory, anyhow.
I note that you've spent more care to ensure alignment of the baseboard than the track as such, which appears to be the only way to ensure track alignment without a filler piece. (Filler pieces are mandated for N-Trak, for example, where modules built by different people must be joined, which is a different situation.)
There is a small packing piece, but the bolts tend to do most of the vertical alignmant, whilst a clamp or screw adjuster (partially visible on the left of my imgae) handles fine adjustments to horizontal alignment.
That's probably true, but I'd maybe go about it in a slightly different way if I did it again.
How to lay track across a baseboard joint is something that I have seen members of clubs get very vocal about!
The best solution is the one which works for you. Personally, I feel that the principal determining factors are the frequency with which the board joint will be dismanted and whether it is in a scenic area or not. If the layout is an exhibition layout or a removable section then I would suggest some variation on John's method as a good solution. Where the board joint is semi-permanent like mine are, then I would suggest that the best approach is to simply lay the track across the joint and use fishplates on the joint. There is no need for screws or PCB anchorage and alignment is maintained.
One of the biggest problems I have seen at exhibitions is that very few layouts successfully deal with the baseboard joint issue in scenic areas. While it is a very real problem, there are techniques to disguise them. Unfortunately, sticking screws in and soldering to them is not one of them!
The general tips I give out for laying track across boards is:
- Do NOT lay turnouts across a board joint EVER
- ALWAYS have a rail lengths of 2-3 inches MINIMUM either side of the board joint - shorter lengths are difficult to level up properly
- Use a mirror to look along the rail head to ensure track is level
- Try to avoid laying track across board joints at an angle - not always possible, but board design can often mitigate this problem eg don't use traditional 2 x 4 boards, build them to fit around a circle - this is the best arrangement for accomodating curves and stops that annoying track on the edge of the board problem (Have a look at the details and pictures of my layout a few years ago to see what I mean:
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and
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Consider rail anchorage points: a soldered screw at one end will force rail expansion and movement across the entire length of a rail. Anchor in the middle with an electrical connection and the rail can expand equally in both directions (something those of us in warmer climes have to consider)
- Allow rail joint expansion gaps
- When connecting wires to rails ALWAYS solder them to the UNDERSIDES of rails BEFORE you lay the track. One of my pet hates is those unsightly globules of solder on the sides of rails and melted sleepers
In my own case the joins are dictated by the size of the loft and what fits through the loft hatch. So with an 11ft x 11ft loft I have 2 5ft
6ins boards along each side but the other two sides have had to be smaller to fit in the available space and get through the hatch. The layout will effectively be permanent. The only problem that I really have is that to avoid placing points on a join I am having to place points either side of a join with a short piece of track joining them. The longer that piece of track is the more the geometry of the junction is going to be incorrect ie too wide a space btween parallel tracks. Given the comments already given I will experiment with one junction and see how it goes.
There's permanent and permanent! With a loft layout in particular it does help to be able to lift a board out to work on the underside etc. trying to fix wiring and point motors etc upside down in a cramped space is disheartening. But you don't need to make exhibition layout style joints that can be quickly taken apart and put together with guaranteed alignment. There is time to adjust alignment carefully when bolting it together and you don't do it very often. In this situation its perfectly adequate to lay all the track normally with glued ballast and then cut through all the rails on the line of the joint, everything will stay put and the joints will not be conspicious. Such joints can equally easily go through the middle of a turnout so long as it is between the moving switches and the frog, it is afterall no different than two seperate tracks, just 4 rails to line up. I have experience doing this without problems, granted with handlaid track but I see no difference in doing this with rtr points and you have a bit more tolerance in than I have in P4.
My loft layout has 20 board joints with a total of 52 tracks crossing them, between 1 and 5 tracks per joint. They have so far survived over
12 years in the loft and been taken apart and put back several times, the alignments are still Ok.
Some of this can be seen at
There are two board joints through the middle of this trackwork. In this case I built the tracks with rail breaks at the board joints but others I laid them straight across and cut through afterwards using a cut off disc in the dremel for the rails and a razor saw to go through the sleepers and cork underlay. In either case I put a thin sheet of plastic between the boards whilst laying to stop the boards getting glued together when fixing the underlay and ballast.
In that case, you have no problem at all. Just bolt or screw the sections together via the supporting framework underneath, and lay track as if it were one continuous table.
You also don't need to worry about rigid fixing of track to the baseboard. Use cork underlay, pin the track in place through the cork only, ballast, glue the ballast down with acrylic matte medium (available at art supplies stores), and remnove the pins. The track will stay in place, and the slight flexibility will enable it to adjust to the vagaries of the effects of heat and cold, humidity and drought.
Re expansion gaps: be careful how you do these. If you are laying track on a hot day, or when the weather has been humid, leave little or no expansion gap. As the temperature drops, or the loft dries out, the gaps wll appear.
Re: feed wires: yes, attach from underneath, and have a feed wire for every piece of rail. Do not expect the fishplates to carry the current reliably. There will always be one that doesn't, and it's the devil's own business to find it. Don't ask!
If the layout is permanent, this consideration doesn't apply.
phil: In a loft (of relatively 'poor' insulation) as we have had until now**, over the years, I have discovered 'rail creep' which has shown itself most visibly at board joins. Difficult to work the rail back within the glued ballast - demonstrates the power of continual expansion and contraction!. Above all, avoid 'tight' curves (eg 24inch) with flexitrack across a join, because it wull always try to misalign itself, unless you preform the track.. the easiest way of which is to use a suitable section of 'set'track
**new loft conversion now has about 140mm of rigid foam Kingspan insulation between aluminium reflectant sheets. Previously it was 1 inch of polystyrene and a sheet of plasterboard.. result: much cooler this summer!
If your design places a point across a board join, then redesign where the board joins is by making one board smaller, if you cannot move the junction. Also when you get older, you'll appreciate the smaller,lighter, boards. Iam just replacing my 25 year old heavy wooden boards with polycarbonate and aluminium - I can lift it on a single finger!
I don't agree with Graham that you should never lay pointwork across a baseboard joint. Within reason, it is possible to split a turnout across a join provided you get the join somewhere between the heel of the switches and the crossing nose. It means that you then have four track joins rather than two, but if your method of dealing with the track ends is accurate enough for two track ends, then it will be good enough for four track ends. I'm just in teh process of building a small 7mm layout at teh moment and I have to place a turnout across a joint or the layout would not work in the space available
However, you would have to be very careful if you wanted to split more complex layouts across a join since you could start having to deal with very short lengths of rail which might prove difficult to anchor properly.
I was thinking that in the event that it was totally unavoidable to lay points across a join, bearing in mind that the layout would only come out if I moved, for the sake of one set of points it would be less hassle to simply destroy them and fit a new one in the new location.
Yes, if you are confident that you don't want to move your boards for access or anything you can just ignore the board joints until that eventual day then just cut through the rails and trackbed at that time. However bear in mind that boards fixed like that require you to do all your under board work under the board, much nicer if you can lift the boards out individually and turn them over. Keith
Good thinking, I think. :-) But if you use the subroadbed + cork ballast former method, you can lift the whole turnout from the layout, you won't have to destroy it. Use just enough glue to hold the subroadbed and ballast former in place, then you can slide a knife under the subroadbed or the ballast former, and lift the whole turnout as one piece. Use fishplates to connect the turnout to the tracks on either side, and attach feed wires to the turnout as needed.***
I'm coming to realise that you people are obessed with cutting rails at baseboard joints. Why would you do that on a permanent layout???? If the layout is permanent, you don't need to cut the joints.
If the layout needs to be moved occasionally, then insert a 6" or longer piece of flex track that spans the joint. Use fishplates at each end, and slide them out of the way so you can lift the span piece before moving the baseboard.
If you have a gate of some sort, or drop/lift leaf, then use John Turner's method or a similar one, but note that then the alignment will have to be done via the substructure, with wedges/bolts/alignment pins/etc.
NTrak mandates a bridging track section 6" long of flex track to span the joints between modules. Works well, every time, even when the tracks on the two modules don't line up exactly. IMO, that's a method that should be considered instead of what seems to me a mania for rigid track fixing and open rail gaps at the baseboard joints.
Another poster mentioned the scenic joint problem on movable layouts, and that IMO is a more serious one, since it spoils the illusion even if the track is perfectly aligned.
***PS: I have several handbuilt turnouts salvaged from the last "complete" layout. They were laid on wooden ties glued to soft woodchip board ballast former. I clipped the feed wires from the power bus, pushed the railjoiners out of the way, used an old bread knife to slice the roadbed away from the subroadbed, and voila! - ready built turnouts for future (re)use, wired and all. They will need little if any adjustment when I reinstall them in the Grand Layout which I will build Real Soon Now (maybe :-)) Oner of them's a curved approx. #15, 30" and
36" radii. I built all turnouts in place to fit. It's l-o-o-o-ng. :-)
You're right of course, if the layout height is the common waist high level. If possible, it should be higher, chest high is good for layouts up to about 30" wide, and shoulder height is OK if you use narrower shelves up to about 18". In either case, you may need a step stool to reach the back of the layout on occasion. I realise that in a loft you may have place the layout lower than wasit height, to gain more space under the sloping roof, in which case my comments don't apply.
One way of reducing the need to get under a low layout is to recess the front framing board by 3" or 4", and bring the feed wires out to the front underneath the overhanging baseboard. Route the power busses along the front, too, and you can attach the feed wires to the power busses as needed. If you install turnouts first, before laying the rest of the track and installing the baseboard section, you can install the switch machines and test them, and bring their feedwires to the front, too. Of course, you will have to be very, very disciplined about wire colours.... :-)
Fastening a profile board along the edge of the baseboard may be a bit trickier, but IMO much less of a hassle than constant removal and reinstallation of baseboards, and much less hassle than crawling underneath.
Another thing I've seen done at baseboard joins, which are not often split, is to have a section of track, or a turnout in your case, spanning the join and coupled to the other rails with rail joiners These rail joiners should be able to be slid back to release the bridging track and there should be no damage to anything when it is removed. For the avoidance of voltage drop across the rail joiners, small jumper wires could be soldered around the joiners and these could be cut or unsoldered when the piece of track was to be removed.
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