Buying a Welder, Need Some Help Sorting Out the Vast Array of Choices

I apologize in advance for the length of this post, but I've been mulling all this over for awhile and have hit a wall. I need some help.

I have not been active in the group for a long time. I've been taking Ernie's advice on my education plan and over the past two years I have done gas welding and stick welding. I also just passed my 3G test in stick. Woohoo!

So, now is the time to buy a machine of my own. I've tried to go back through the group and look at the archived messages regarding 'which welder to buy'. I have also been comparing things online and getting some prices from local suppliers. As it turns out, I can get a 40% discount through my welding school here in Kentucky. Needless to say I'll be taking advantage of this, but believe it or not need some help spending my money. ;)

I was recently GIVEN! a Lincoln 225 AC welder. I am adding a plug and work clamp and it will hopefully be operational this weekend. I've never used one of these machines, but I'm looking forward to it. I've mainly been doing stick DCEP and really enjoy it. However, I think I will be progressing onto MIG and then TIG. The goal is to be able to weld all processes and, at the very least, mild and stainless steel and aluminum.

My brother-in-law has an equipment and party rental business and rents seeders, tractors, implements, tables, chairs, tents, etc. Stick is really handy for a lot of the heavier stuff, but a lot of the party stuff is aluminum. Aside from that, I do some art/general blacksmithing and am learning horseshoeing. Stick will be good for these as well.

So, I'm trying to decide if I should just buy a Miller Bluestar 185 DX so that I can have portability (for back and forth to my brother-in-law's shop, field repairs, etc.) OR buy a Millermatic 252 for the speed, ease of use, and the ability to add a spool gun for aluminum OR to buy a Synchrowave 200 machine for the ability to weld everything, albeit slower. What say you all? Keep in mind that I have single-phase 100 amp service in my barn (which is where the equipment will live and work most of the time) and need something that will fit the panel.

Any advice about these machines or Lincoln versions of similar? Anything else I should be considering; a Miller Maxstar 200 (SD, DX, LX?) perhaps? I'm open to any and all advice. I don't need to buy the end-all be-all machine, but want to make a smart purchase that will serve me well now and as my needs grow.

Thanks,

rvb

-- As Iron Sharpens Iron, So One Man Sharpens Another. Proverbs 27:17

You are smart to realize that there is no one welder that does it all. Closely examine your needs, and buy the one that can do the most work first or make you the most money. Then, move on to the next. I think a guy could have three. A good engine drive portable, a good shop AC/CD/TIG, and a good wirefeed, blue or red.

You can buy new, or you can get some pretty good deals used, and if they aren't what you wanted, or they won't do the work, you won't take a beating on the prices.

Examine the uses, choose the machine(s) that will fill the most uses, then buy blue or red. Fergeddabout foreign or cheapo welders, unless you can score a really good welder for a really cheap price. It happens. You can get by with cheap grinders, and other cheap tools. The type of work, the quality of work you want to put out, and the money these machines make will probably affect the selection of the quality of tools you buy. But again, you can get GOOD used stuff CHEAP occasionally.

I'm not pushing any model of machine, but rather the concept behind the choices. I am a big fan of blue or red, though.

Steve

I bought a Panasonic 260 Gunslinger Mig / stick /DC TIG Perfect machine for me. I paid about $1250.00 several years ago.

Hows parts availability and support? Ive heard the Panasonics are pretty much orphans, though good machines.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

I'm interested. Does it run off a 50 amp breaker? Can you buy it through any welding supplier?

-- As Iron Sharpens Iron, So One Man Sharpens Another. Proverbs 27:17

I bought mine from Praxair in Fargo. I have not had to buy anything but consumables for it but I see Panasonic still makes and sells them. I was told this is Panasonic's smallest welder and most Panasonic applications are robotic welding. I started running this machine on a 50 amp breaker but it would trip it when I switched the machine on. A 60 amp breaker cured that. Steve

I would think most any part would be available as they are still being produced. The only item I needed for this welder that was OEM only was the wire drive roller. It came with a .045-.035 and I wanted to run .023 wire for welding sheetmetal. The dealer had it in a few days. The torch is a Tweeco so no probem there. Steve

snip

I'll share my experiences with you for what they may be worth.

About 30 years ago I operated a custom shop and relied on a small Miller Thunderbolt as backup to my Miller Econotwin AC/DC stick/Tig machine. I kept the Thunderbolt when I sold the shop and it worked fine for the next three decades (occasional use).

In the past few years I picked up used Lincoln (240v) and Hobart (110v) mig welders. The Lincoln works fine up to 1/4" steel in a single pass and up to

3/8" steel with multiple passes... but I've been mostly welding sheet metal (22 ga.) lately. The Lincoln runs nicely on a 30 amp breaker and the Hobart will run from a microwave plug. The Hobart is mostly for portability but I've made "cheater" cables to plug a 240v welder into a stove or electric dryer plug... so the Hobart sits.

I recently added a Miller Dynasty 200 DX with the Weld Craft tig torch kit to my collection and have been welding thick steel, thin sheet steel, stainless sheet and some aluminum. More aluminum to follow after all the snow's gone. I've welded 1/2" plate with 7018 rod and the Dynasty welds so fine!

I just love the Dynasty. My supplier tried to talk me into buying the Syncrowave 'cuz it's about $1,000.00 cheaper but it is a hog for power (min.

50 amp service) and weighs in at about 238 lbs. to the Dynasty's 45 lbs. Portability and multi-voltage capability tipped the scales to the Dynasty. Its output is smooooooooth and steady, controlled by its computerized, inverter technology. I experimented with 7018 rod at 110v and 240v and couldn't tell the difference. It's a pure joy to tig weld steel and aluminum, too. I've also used tig to braze thin skin onto a station wagon quarter panel (a much smaller heat affected zone than O/A and not possible with other electric processes).

It's a bit costly... but well worth the money. I prefer tig for aluminum over AC stick or a spool gun. I've used both alternatives and they're OK but AC tig on aluminum seems like... finesse. And although I've not tried it yet... I've seen a Dynasty used to weld aluminum foil!!! That'll keep your sandwiches fresh... har har

And if you're in the market for an auto darkening helmet... give the new Miller Digital Elite a look see. I bought one last week and it's great. The X- mode alone is worth the few extra bucks it costs.

I hope this info is useful to you.

Cheers

be able to

Thanks for sharing your knowledge, Toolman. It definitely gives me something to think about. I can't believe I didn't really even notice the Dynasty. It looks as if it's input requirements are MUCH more flexible and lower.

rvb

-- As Iron Sharpens Iron, So One Man Sharpens Another. Proverbs 27:17

Grant,

Thanks for the info. I have another question for you. Will a spool gun be the best choice for welding aluminum for say farrier rigs? It looks like all the welds are TIG welded on this

See the links:

I already have some farriers wanting me to add some shelves and stuff to their rigs and to make repairs so I'm curious whether or not I should buy the spool gun or a TIG machine.

to be able to

In my case i chose the Synchrowave 200 specifically FOR the reasons you picked against it. my mobile welder is a mig machine and i had plenty of shop power and room for it and it does not move much.

but i also didnt budget for the extra 800 that the torch cable and contactor kit would have cost on the dynasty

I'm a long time Miller fan 'cuz I believe in the quality of all their products. The Synchrowave's a very good unit and I also have the room and power for one. I'm sure you're quite happy with it and if I had one I'd be pleased, too. I hope you don't think I'm knocking the Synchrowave... 'cuz I'm not.

I chose the Dynasty 'cuz I think it's the way of the future. I had to shift my paradigm to embrace the notion of my little lunch box paralleling the performance of its big brother. So I researched the subject... experienced some hands-on and became a bit familiar with inverter technology. I believe it will soon replace the older and larger transformer technology. The Dynasty and Synchrowave mirror each other in welding performance and the features inherent to the small inverter give it an edge over the Synchrowave. With copper and other metal prices skyrocketing and CPU's dropping, I predict the Synchrowave and others like it will become costlier than the inverters.

Lower input power requirements also reduce operating costs and over the life span of the units the savings will be significant. In commercial apps the savings will be huge. Lower operating temperatures and reduced noise (the DX is whisper quiet) add significantly to many other factors.

I guess prices will vary. I got the Miller kit that's intended to mate with the Dynasty for about $600.00. In the carrying case I discovered extra connectors and SMAW cables I wasn't expecting. The WeldCraft tig torch is awesome. Ergonomic, rugged and just feels good in hand. A starter kit of electrodes, cups and tips gets you up and running after fitting to your bottle with the included regulator/flowmeter. I thought it was a good investment.

But Brent... the bottom line is that we're both a couple'a smart fellers! Can't nothing be said different 'bout guys burning with Miller.

Go Blue!

Michael

A spoolgun is much much easier to use for welding aluminum, especially on a truck. You will still need to get the truck inside a building or build a tarp tent around the work so you won't get a breeze.

I stand behind the Readywelder as an excellent spoolgun solution. I love mine.

BTW it is very hard to tell the difference between a pulsed MIG weld and a TIG weld on aluminum if using a high end aluminum MIG machine.

I got to use a spool gun with aluminum last night for the first time. Wow! So darn fast!

I looked up the ReadyWelder and it seems awesome! And it looks like I could use a DC only Constant Current power source and still be able to weld aluminum? The only thing that gives me pause is this from their FAQ:

1. Can I connect the RW-II to my Miller/Lincoln etc MIG or ARC welder to use as a "spool gun" attachment?

Answer: Quite possibly. The RW-II was designed for pure DC and does not tolerate AC, voltage spikes or input levels which exceed 48 volts. The circuit board brain of the RW-II is very sensitive to waveform distortions as well. Welding machines with "constant voltage" and/or "constant current" DC outputs which can be adjusted to levels between

24 and 36 volts DC, may work just fine, but keep in mind that the RW-II was designed for batteries and any other power source may cause problems.

Ernie,

How do you use the ReadyWelder and what would you recommend as a setup? I'm thinking of buying a Millermatic 252 and would want to use it with that. And if the ReadyWelder will work with a DC CC power supply, I might actually buy the MM 252 with a Maxstar 150 for portability.

Input is appreciated.

Thanks,

rvb

-- As Iron Sharpens Iron, So One Man Sharpens Another. Proverbs 27:17

I have used my Readywelder with every type of welding power source imaginable. I have used it mostly running from my Maxstar 200DX Inverter, but I have also used it a lot on my Betamig 250, and every machine at South Seattle Community College, where I would demo it every quarter to my students.

With the addition of the new Cold Switch you don't have to worry about the gun tip being HOT all the time. It has never been too much of a problem for me, but I can see it as a safety hazard.

I have the model 10250.

Thanks.

-- As Iron Sharpens Iron, So One Man Sharpens Another. Proverbs 27:17

I just got this reply from the Panasonic rep: Gunslingers can be purchased through PRI robotics. Their website is

Gunslingers can also be purchased through Praxair and Airgas distribution.

******** ********

Account Manager

Panasonic Factory Solutions Company

CraftKB.comhttp://www.craftkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/welding/200803/1 i also bought it at a time when the canadian dollar was worth 85 us cents and it was reasonable for me to expect to pay the us list price in canadian dollars or some reasonable facsimile of that. Coupled with the fact that the weld shop helped broker the sale of my earlier welder i wasn't going to niggle on price..... besides now i can get a dynasty when i have the welding income to justify it as a mobile unit and i have a good solid welder to use till i get there. Most of my primary tools are industrial tools even if i am a home user. Most of my electronics tools are 10-30 years old my mill turns 51 this year and my lathe is at least as old

I think buying a light industrial welder is a long term purchase and with the hours i put on it it will in fact cost me less than a little

110v welder once i've figured in the years it will last

Grant,

I suspect the answer is 'you'll know when you need one', but how will I know when I need the TIG? I've see people weld thin and thick, steel, stainless, and aluminum with TIG. I know that with a spool gun you can put down some serious aluminum. So, what are some deciding factors?

Most folks have said, 'What are you going to do?' when I ask them MIG or TIG. But, I never seem to get a straight answer. I read Ernie's article (can't remember where I saw it) regarding MIG or TIG and I felt I could go either way. I'm primarily going to be working with mild steel, stainless, and aluminum. There will be a need to do some cast iron work as well. I've only ever seen stick used for this.

I don't know that I'll be doing production volume work (at least not right away). I will be doing ornamental stuff (gates, stands, etc.).

So, MIG or TIG? Any help is appreciated.