On carbon vs. stainless steel in grills

A few days ago I asked about use of stainless steel in grills and barbeques. A common theme, mentioned by several people, was that a
grill is a terribly corrosive environment because of heat, salt, acid and condensation, all combining to ruin any ferrous metal. They said that even stainless would rust.
This is a followup to that discussion. I found replacement parts for my grill (cast iron burners and stainless flame tamers, to replace ceramic flame tamers).
While replacing the old parts, I noticed that the stainless parts, in close proximity to carbon steel parts, DID NOT RUST AT ALL. At worst they were "discolored" after 8 years in the grill, if that, but had essentially no rust or pitting. All the while, the old burners completely rotted out and resembed a pile or rust flakes more than a solid piece of metal. Some fell apart when lifted out of the grill. The stainless pieces, however, looked almost like new.
So it is not true to say that stainless steel rusts in grills, it essentially does not.
i
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Similar story... I asked about passivating an SS weldament to be used for a chum ladle (chum is ground up fish bait) The consensus was no way could you prevent rusting in this application. Well, for at least one year of use, no rust at all. SS is good stuff Maynard!
Karl
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Yes, Sir, indeed stainless is good stuff.
i
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"Ignoramus17356" wrote: Yes, Sir, indeed stainless is good stuff. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ A rose is a rose is a rose--but stainless comes in a variety of alloys. From your experience, some are good in the barbecue, but others may not be.
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It looks like my barbecue is using the particular alloy that is good in barbecues.
i
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On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 14:08:19 -0500, Ignoramus17356

When I bought my grill, I used the "magnet test for stainless steel" * The magnet did not stick to the grill grates and have not rusted in the five years I've had it.
"If the magnet sticks, don't buy it."
http://bbq.about.com/od/gasgrills/a/aa052706a.htm
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Try walking through the IKEA kitchen section with a small magnet. Amazing how much of their "stainless steel" is magnetic. Surprised the hell out of me when I first noticed it.
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Many types of SS (I believe "alloy" is a word used in "castings") are good quality even if magnetic. It depends on the amount of chromium used. And IIRC, the non-magnetic is nickel stainless.
bob
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wrote:

Many types of SS (I believe "alloy" is a word used in "castings") are good quality even if magnetic. It depends on the amount of chromium used. And IIRC, the non-magnetic is nickel stainless.
bob
Isn't really the symmetry of the crystalline structure of the metal grains involved in whether the stuff is magnetic or not? The hexagonal symmetry grains being magnetic.
Fran
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Depends on whether it's got ferrite in it or not. High chromium/ nickel steels aren't magnetic, but make lousy knives and gun parts. Finished reading a book on intergranular corrosion in stainless, the stuff tends to get attacked on grain boundaries because the grain themselves have the oxide protection. So eventually the material literally falls apart, how fast depends on how large the grains are. Forged/rolled items tend to have fine grain structure, as-cast is coarse. Weldments are probably coarse unless post-treated somehow.
Had one junk man who depended on his little magnet to tell him if his junk was stainless steel or not, had to tell him that it could be stainless AND magnetic, he didn't believe me.
Stan
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Nickel is magnetic by itself.
Austenitic Stainless steels are non-magnetic. Chrome 16-26%, nickel less or = to 35% and so forth.
There are so many alloys and it is a complex task to measure. The fancy machines that blast them and measure the reflections - are not all perfect. Been there had it done to me.
Martin
snipped-for-privacy@prolynx.com wrote:

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It is? In what form? How would I go about proving that to myself in an easily measurable manner?
Nickel plated steel would still be magnetic of course, but it's the steel under the nickel.
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I believe that cobalt is magnetic, but not nickel.
i
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On Apr 8, 11:42am, Ignoramus16651 <ignoramus16...@NOSPAM. 16651.invalid> wrote:

The 38 elements in groups 3 through 12 of the periodic table are called "transition metals". As with all metals, the transition elements are both ductile and malleable, and conduct electricity and heat. The interesting thing about transition metals is that their valence electrons, or the electrons they use to combine with other elements, are present in more than one shell. This is the reason why they often exhibit several common oxidation states.
There are three noteworthy elements in the transition metals family.
These elements are iron, cobalt, and nickel, and they are the only elements known to produce a magnetic field.
The Transition Metals are:
Scandium Titanium Vanadium Chromium Manganese Iron Cobalt Nickel Copper Zinc Yttrium Zirconium Niobium Molybdenum Technetium Ruthenium Rhodium Palladium Silver Cadmium Hafnium Tantalum Tungsten Rhenium Osmium Iridium Platinum Gold Mercury Rutherfordium Dubnium Seaborgium Bohrium Hassium Meitnerium Ununnilium Unununium Ununbium
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On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:16:47 -0700, sparky wrote:

Presumably you mean at room temperature, 293 K - 298 K? Gadolinium comes close, with a Curie temperature of 292 K, which is about 66°F or 18.8°C. [It's a "silvery-white, malleable and ductile rare-earth metal", per <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadolinium .]

[snip 3 dozen lines]

See <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferromagnetism for a list of Curie temperatures for 16 crystalline ferromagnetic and ferrimagnetic materials. It seems that 6 elements (Fe, Co, Ni, Gd, Dy, Li) have been observed to produce ferromagnetic magnetic fields. Li isn't shown in the chart but is mentioned in a later paragraph, with a Curie temp well below 1 K for Li gas.
Re the original question, although US nickel coins are 1/4 nickel, 3/4 copper*, they seem to be non-ferromagnetic, as mentioned before. *<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_ (United_States_coin)>.
--
jiw

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Material     Curie temp. (K) Co         1388 <---- Cobalt Fe         1043 <---- Iron FeOFe2O3*     858 NiOFe2O3*     858 CuOFe2O3*     728 MgOFe2O3*     713 MnBi         630 Ni         627 <---- Nickel MnSb         587 MnOFe2O3*     573 Y3Fe5O12*     560 CrO2         386 MnAs         318 Gd         292 Dy         88 EuO         69
Ferromagnetic metals and compounds have a Curie temp. Meaning that is the point where magnetism is lost cool slightly and it returns.
Martin
Ignoramus16651 wrote:

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Empirically, the rather low-nickel alloy (it's 70-75% copper, as I recall, you can look it up, I'm not bothering right now) that US nickels (currency, coin) are made from ignores a nice strong hard-drive magnet...
It may depend on crystal structure, as does steel (most back-yard heat treaters are aware of steel going non-magnetic as a good temperature indicator of when it might be hot enough to quench, at least if it's plain carbon steel.)
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

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With a small magnet and a Canadian dime? That's how I do it.
The copper-nickel alloy of US 'nickels' is not ferromagnetic.
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wrote in message

I would not think it would be 'FERRO'magnetic even if it was pure nickel. LOL.
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wrote in message

physics of one particular magnetism mechanism, not to the material, although obviously that's where the term came from.
--
Ed Huntress.



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