Steel building advice

Ernie,
I looked at every make of steel building and pole barn known to man before building my shop in Poulsbo and the condensation problem was a deal killer.
I ended up building a wood shell over steel bents and the bents carry the load of my crane which runs the length of the shop. I heat the shop with a radiant system in the slab and it runs off a 50 gal hot water heater. I typically keep the thermostat at 50 degrees F. and never get any condensation.
Ed Angell

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killer. Ed, I've seen the condensation problem on un-insulated overheads.
I had a pole building put up in 1985 just South of Oak Harbor with the "standard insulation package". I think it was 3" or 4" vinyl covered. I never had the condensation like my neighbor did with his 'bare metal'.
If your building code and neighborhood covenants allow it, metal pole buildings are the way to go.
PS: I had to add 'plugs' around the bottom edge of the walls to keep the critters out.
Larry

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killer. Ed, I've seen the condensation problem on un-insulated overheads.
I had a pole building put up in 1985 just South of Oak Harbor with the "standard insulation package". I think it was 3" or 4" vinyl covered. I never had the condensation like my neighbor did with his 'bare metal'.
If your building code and neighborhood covenants allow it, metal pole buildings are the way to go.
PS: I had to add 'plugs' around the bottom edge of the walls to keep the critters out.
Larry

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Ed, tell me a bit more about the heating system in your shop. When you say that it runs off of a 50 gal hot water heater, are you talking about something made specifically for radiant floor heating, or did you put together a "home-brew" system using an off-the-shelf water heater?

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snipped-for-privacy@duke.edu (Andy Wakefield) wrote in message

Some hot water heaters are spec'd for use as a heat source for radiant heat. I'm using a commercial duty 87% efficient tankless hot water heater for the radiant floor heat in my shop. It won't be running until next winter, but it's fine with the local inspector. If you want to get fancy, you can get potable hot water as well, but it's not worth the expense if you're only going to run a sink. Code requires the heat loop to be separated by a heat exchanger and the extra circ pump you need costs more than a small flash water heater.
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Thanks for the info, and thanks also to someone in another post who mentioned the www.radiantcompany.com website -- some very helpful information as I think about future possibilities ...
snipped-for-privacy@auroragrp.com (Paul Amaranth) wrote in message

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Yes, quite a few of us have an interest in this.
|Ed, tell me a bit more about the heating system in your shop. When you |say that it runs off of a 50 gal hot water heater, are you talking |about something made specifically for radiant floor heating, or did |you put together a "home-brew" system using an off-the-shelf water |heater? |
|> > American Duro is a company selling steel building kits via eBay. |> > |> > They don't have much feedback yet, but I was wondering if any of you |> > guys have had dealings with them. |> > |> > Here is their store. |> > http://www.stores.ebay.com/id3226969&ssPageName=L2 |> > |> > This is the one I am interested in. |> > |> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item%70811119 |> > |> > Under $5400, including shipping, for a 30' x 40' x 14' peaked roof |> > building is quite affordable. |> > |> > Plus with how this one assembles I can build it over a crushed rock |> > floor, and later pour a concrete floor.
Rex in Fort Worth
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They misquoted Bert Gummer. The correct quote is,
"The possibilities for disaster are endless."

Where does it say that? I couldn't find any links to engineering specs.
Gary
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Ok, I had my fun, now maybe something useful. Here's the URL of their website http://www.americandurospan.com/ Still no engineering data, but you can see how they go together.
It is basically a modified Quonset hut. The major problem I see is the *many* joints which can leak. Since the metal will expand and contract with temperature, you always seem to be getting new leaks with this type of construction. Condensation problems are a bitch too.
My shop is metal skinned, but the framework is wooden post and beam. That seems to help with expansion/contraction issues. There's 8 inches of dead space between the metal and the inner walls. A vapor barrier and insulation in the dead space solves condensation problems. I looked at all steel buildings, but the way I built mine turned out cheaper when you include finished out costs ($13,500 from a wooded lot to a finished 1800 square foot shop), and I think better.
Gary
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To bad that some of the website is broken - check out accessories...
Martin
Gary Coffman wrote:

--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer snipped-for-privacy@pacbell.net
  Click to see the full signature.
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I should point out that this is not for a machine shop. It is for a welding fab shop.
No milling machines or lathes. All that stuff stays in the house.
My jobs are getting bigger and I need space to assemble large steel staircases, and fab structural steel beams.
I know it needs to be insulated.
If you look at some of their pictures you will see their buildings can be assembled over gravel.
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Ernie,
You may already know this and it may be a bit off topic. From my recent experience, in any dealings you have with the City and the in the permitting process you should never refer to your building as a shop. It should only be refered to as a garage. It seems that cities think of garages as storage units where as shops are much like commercial buildings in residential areas.
The City of Seattle required me to use the same foundation design required for a two-story dwelling for my garage. Renton may be different. Pole buildings seem to be acceptable without the foundation and I imagine this is the case because pole building manufacturers have engineering drawings that have already been approved.
Let me know if you want to talk about your project.
Cheers,
Kelley
On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 08:57:44 GMT, Ernie Leimkuhler

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In my county, I found it was best to refer to it as a barn. The county planners understood barn, and the permits were much cheaper.
Gary
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James Kelsey (rainlover) put up a similar building last year. Just in case you haven't seen the blow-by-blow description it's at <http://www.jameskelseystudios.com/studio.html
Cheers,
Kelley
On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 08:57:44 GMT, Ernie Leimkuhler

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I purchased a steel building from Pioneer (Canada) and being cautious I requested the signed plans first and took them to the building department of my small county in Nevada for approval of my project before I bought the rest of the building. Plan cost was non- refundable, and the company was a pleasure to deal with. I also asked for and received the name of a person about 25 miles away that did a similar building so I could go see it, and talk to the owner, which I did. Permit process took about a week. Slam dunk.
Planning department wanted engineering stress calcs, etc. which Pioneer supplied. They called and dealt with the planning department.
I agree with the prior poster calling it a garage and not a shop, but you should make sure your zoning permits the type of work you plan to do in the shop if you are going to charge for it or you can be closed down by a neighbor's phone call.
If you don't get plans for your local area and building codes supplied by the seller and included in your price, you have to hire qualified folks to create them and your costs just go crazy. A local here bought a steel bldg with no foundation plans included and his engineering costs and foundation costs were unreal. Big Time Mistake.
If you do a slab, put 3/4 inch PEX in it for radiant heat now or in the future. A prior poster spoke to this. Radiantcompany.com has some great ideas. Pre-mark any areas where you plan to put anchor bolts for machinery or place them before you pour. Insulate the foundation.
Assembly: If you have anyone help you, you should have workman's comp insurance because your homeowner's policy will likely not cover your helper's injuries. If you hire a contractor or handyman crew, request a proof of workman's comp insurance before doing anything. Hiring a handyman crew with their own workman's comp policy is probably less hassle than getting a policy yourself.     Sounds silly, but everything is fun until someone slips or falls and you have to pay for everything if you are not properly covered. Be a shame to lose your house to pay for a back injury.     This is applicable to building delivery as well. An 18 wheeler drives up and you have to unload it. The driver helped but I used a tractor with forks on it and it took about 45 minutes. Normally you need a crew if done by hand. Rental forklift could be used if you do it yourself.
The building you referenced on ebay had an opening, but were the doors in the picture included?
I have no connection whatsoever with Radiantcompany or Pioneer other than being a satisfied customer.
Looks like a nice building and it should be fun to build and use.
Regards, Bill Vorhies

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wrote:

You replying to the concrete *first* post?
My only suggestion pertaining to concrete is about joints.
Concrete cracks, that's why there's always joints made in it. For the best floor, IMO, make sure that there's rebar pins *across* the places where the joints will be. Similar to how road concrete is poured.
And at the risk of sounding too elemental, for a nice, almost seamless floor, contractors literally cut the joints, the second day, with a concrete saw. While the stuff is still green, no water w/ the cut.
I've got a buddy that really screwed up his floor. Jeez. Huge floor, 40 X 50, no joints. (Yeah!) He wound up with joints he sure as hell didn't want.
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I just want to clarify that they have TWO web sites:
http://www.americandurospan.com is devoted to "quonset" type buildings. http://www.americandurobeam.com is devoted to traditional I-Beam construction.
This second site has a nifty set of graphics which show the erection sequence of I-Beam buildings.
VT
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Check insulation cost first. I have a 30' x 36' and the three co. I talked to wanted about $6,000 to foam it. Terry in Ohio

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I periodically get year-end pricing announcements from US Steel Buildings Direct (at http://www.usbuildingsdirect.com/products.html ) - They sent me an email last week with this pricing:
G'Luck with whatever you choose.
Rex S.
A Model: A16X24X11'5.5" (ONLY 13 LEFT!) MSRP $7,307.00 NOW: $2,300.00
A20X26X12'.75" (ONLY 8 LEFT!) MSRP $8,404.00 NOW: $2,480.00
A25X30X12'10.5" (ONLY 9 LEFT!) MSRP $10,280.00 NOW: $3,075.00
S Model: S20X30X12'10" (ONLY 8 LEFT!) MSRP $8,400.00 NOW: $2,620.00
S25X40X14'.75" (ONLY 9 LEFT) MSRP $13,500.00 NOW: $4,270.00
Q Model: Q33X36X16 (ONLY 7 LEFT) MSRP $8,228.00 NOW: $2,990.00

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