Guillow's Rubber Powered Models - did you ever make one?

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 19:32:21 -0800 (PST), "Admin - RCGearing.com" wrote in :

Fokker D7 SE-5 P-40 P-47 Bonanza--with a Cox 0.010 on very short lines

These were the first models I ever built. Dad bought them for me and got me started. He didn't know how to fly them and neither did I.

I did take the SE-5 out one day and that brought my neighbor out of his house. He taught me a lot and loaned me a free flight Cub that he built when he was 16. He took it back when he got into radio control.

Marty

I had a Cub, a Great Lakes Biplane, and a WWII plane (maybe a Dauntless? too long ago to remember...). The Cub flew like a dream once it was properly balanced, thanks to the help of an old timer who watched me struggle and stepped in with some of the best trimming advice I ever got. The bipe never flew well because of wing incidence/warp issues and the warbird was just too darn heavy to fly right with rubber power.

A short while later, I built a Cessna Bird Dog kit and followed the old timers advice right from the start (careful wood selection, weigh the parts before and during building, build straight straight straight and then check for straightness again.... That one flew beautifully the first time.

Now ya made me want to go out and get another one!

Geezer

Pass the butter - I smell corn...

"build straight straight straight and then check for straightness again.... "

Straightness is key, indeed. Got any tricks of the trade for horizontal and vertical straightness?

Get or make a _really flat_ building board. I use a piece of plywood for a base that I check with a straightedge and level, and shim to my bench to assure flatness.

Get some _really square_ squares. I was fortunate enough to score a bunch of brass weights for a full-size aerospace application that happen to be machined square -- they're square enough that I can sit 'em on that flat building board and they give me a vertical reference, and heavy enough that they stay put.

Come to think of it, cheap 1-2-3 blocks from a machinist supply (like Enco Tools) would be the bee's knees for this sort of thing. I dream of getting a machinist's granite slab for building. It's kinda hard to put a pin into, but oh boy is it flat and rigid.

Well, the guy who taught me my first tricks (Phillip..never call him Phil...his name was Phillip, even to us kids) taught me to build on a ceiling tile. Those acoustic tiles that look like they're made from shredded, grey cardboard. Place it, finished side down, using double sided tape, on a piece of 3/4" plywood cut to size. Pin the plans to the tile and cover the plans with Saran Wrap.

Once he found out that my dad was a machinist, he was thrilled to death and told me that most of my problems were already solved. Before cutting out any bulkheads, mark vertical and horizontal lines on every piece, to be used as ledger references during building. Nothing earth shattering, just the prep work that an impatient kid would overlook. To make a really long story short, he taught me how to ask my busy, overworked dad for help and a lesson in basic shop setup and job prep.

One thing that struck me as strange was when he told me to prepare every piece for the wings and horizontal stab and weigh them all before even starting assembly. Take the spars, leading and trailing edges, ribs, hinges, etc. for the left side, and take the same parts for the right side...and weigh them on a balance scale...to be sure that one sides weight matched the other sides weight. If they didn't match, start swapping parts side-to-side to see if a balance can be achieved. Only after that should parts be trimmed/sanded to achieve balance. He also taught me about balsa grain, density, and stiffness. As a kid, that was something that never occurred to me, but with a small model, it's something that's very important. Start balanced, finish balanced.

Another trick he taught me was to chech for runout on the spars and fuselage stringers. Spray a stringer with water, wait a while and see if it twisted while wet or after drying. If it did, replace it with one cut from a nice straight-grained piece of balsa. In other words he told me to expect to throw away about 30% of a Guillows' kit balsa and replace it with lighter/straighter/stiffer where needed.

Phillip showed me how to use modeling clay as weight to hold things down flat on the building board while the glue dried, how to weight/pin down a wing while the tissue is being applied and drying...

Basically, just plain ole'good building practice. Nothing earth shattering, just the basics.

The biggest lesson: patience, plain and simple. And, he taught me how to talk to my dad.

Geezer

So, to sum it all up:

Building Straight requires:

#1 Flat work board #2 Flat Weights to hold down parts while glueing? #3 Weigh parts

And patience...always patience.

Re #2...not necessarily flat weights..just a flat surface to put the weight on.

Last built an Arrow...oh must have been 20 years ago. As I recall it flew well. Came up nicely not to sharp, banked to the left "just right" so it made a big circle. Decent hang time, handled side gusts okay... pretty much built it using only white glue cut 50/50 and covered it with their tissue (heavy stuff) and water with just enough white glue to help seal the pores.

-- Keith

When I built my building table, I framed it with 1x4s and used a strait edge and plane to level the frame before I put on the 3/4" MDF top. I have a piece of 1/4" plate glass that I actually build on. The plans go under the glass where they are easy to see and don't move. As long as I look straight down on them, they are easy to use. The glass is flat and any glue that gets spilled comes off with a razor scraper. I have been using painter's tape to hold things in place on the glass, but the modeling clay sounds like a great idea I'll have to try. As for vertical squareness, I used my chop saw to make some 45 and 60 degree triangle blocks out of 3/4" oak stock. They will stand on edge and 2 will hold things vertical while the glue dries.

I think it was a Guillows model; a Grumman Hellcat, maybe 18" wingspan. It was easy to build and cover with Japanese tissue paper, shrunk with water from a plant sprayer and finished with blue nitrate dope after it shrunk tight. This was just before Monokote first came out. Many years ago. I put a Cox .020 gas motor in it and flew it as a free flight model. It flew really straight. I had to shim the motor to give it some side thrust to go in a circle.

I built wings and fuselages on a fiber bulletin board, with a composition very much like acoustic ceiling tiles. I put waxed paper over the building plans so the assemblies could be easily separated from the plans and used 'T'-pins to hold parts down. Titebond aliphatic resin white glue was the high tech innovation in those days and I still have it on hand today. God, the RC hardware is so developed, and so reasonable. Just thinking about it makes me want to build an airplane....

These days I am occupied mostly with RC helicopters, electric, but am thinking of building a Guillows airplane to take advantace of ultra-lightweight RC receivers and servos and a very small brushless motor. I would have killed for stuff like this when I was a kid!

Zip Zackerly -

On Fri, 9 Jan 2009 20:04:30 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@lanset.com wrote in :

You're right--the Guillows kits might make very interesting indoor models with the new technology. I never thought of that ...

Marty

It was early 90s. It was a P-51 mustang. Tissue, silver Pactra. It never did fly. I have a Guillow's kit on the shelf that I hope to redeem myself with. The new micro rc stuff has entered my mind but I would go the small stuff and don't want to fork over for it(plantraco?). Maybe I could make it free flight with a teeninetsy motor, prop and batt. I can always use another lesson in flight trimming. mk

On Fri, 9 Jan 2009 22:17:02 -0600, "MJKolodziej" wrote in :

I just realized that I have a Herr Brothers laser-cut Cub kit that might make a splendid indoor flyer.

Not this winter. Maybe not next winter. But it's a reason to let the kit collect dust where it is a little longer.

Marty

Loads of people convert em to electric R/C. check out scale forum in rcgroups.

micro outrinners are not that bad..theres a 10g unit in united hobbies IIRC at $7.95..and a 16" span warbird can carry standard feather servos and receiver, just.