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Request for Assist - Aero-/Hydro-dynamic analysis - Hydrofoil

I would like to build a 1/64 (preferred) or 1/48 scale model of

FHE-400 HMCS Bras d'Or hydrofoil experimental ship.

As was the case with the original, whereby the foil system was designed by deHavilland Aircraft Company of Canada, I am approaching the "air" category to find someone who can assist PRIMARILY with the analysis of the hydrofoil from a standpoint of

1) angle of attack 2) sizing of chord 3) lift estimates 4) determination of forward speed sufficient to provide adequate lift for a realistic-looking scaled motion.

For those who are not familiar, the Bras d'Or had a canard wing arrangement with 90% of lift from the main rear foil and 10% from the bow canard foil which was also the rudder.

I am approaching this project in a number of phases as follows:

I) analysis of scaled dynamics and feasibility of proportional foil structure - challenge: sizing foil so that inherent surface-piercing lifting effects assist with stabilization - challenge: sizing lift so that main-foil tip stabilizing fins remain submerged for effect - plan start: May 2005 - plan end: July 2005

=> SCOPE of current request is limited to Phase I only.

II) design of foil control systems (servo-system I) - challenge: coordinate bow foil turning with main foil stabilizer fins - challenge: eliminate need for tilting bow-foil during take-off transition - plan start: July 2005 - plan end: August 2005

III design of propulsion system (servo-system II) - challenge: design foil-mounted propeller system (if possible) - challenge: design single propulsion system (valid for both hull-borne and foil-borne modes) - plan start: July 2005 - plan end: August 2005

IV) building disposable experimental hull for control and dynamics design confirmation/tuning of re-usable main/canard foil systems - plan start: August 2005 - plan end: October 2005

V) Iterations of control systems design - challenge: self-stabilizing for rolling, even (tricky part) during inclined turns - plan start: October 2005 - plan end: April 2006

VI) building realistic scaled hull, re-using above working foil system - plan start: April 2006 - plan end: August 2006

VII) building scaled stand-off docking facilities (as originally planned by RCN) - challenge: keeping concept of electro-magnetic clamps sufficiently simple, compact and light-weight - challenge: mechanizing lifting/pivoting of gantries (docking clamps) - plan start: August 2006 - plan end: November 2006

Phases (I) thru (V) are go/no-go phases depending on confirmed feasibility (within my limited skills).

Any individuals who wish to put their name forward for this project will be more than welcome to participate.

In the long run, it would be nice to have a number of individuals, each with their own model ship, so as to create the fleet that never was !!!!

(please allow me my momentary insanity and delusions of grandeur)

Thank you in advance for your comments.

Eric

Reply to
abracadabra
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You have GOT to be an engineer.........................

arrangement

Reply to
Bill Fulmer

Owwwwww !!!!!! That hurts !

Guilty.

Eric

Reply to
abracadabra

Please extend some slack in my direction.

1) I know >> 0 > 0 You have GOT to be an engineer.........................
Reply to
abracadabra

"abracadabra" SNIP

One thing to remember when you model this. While the size of the model is different from the original the molecules that interact with the lifting surfaces are STILL the same. When someone finally figures out how to either scale them down things will get interesting.

I know >>0

Reply to
Keith Schiffner

| One thing to remember when you model this. While the size of the | model is different from the original the molecules that interact | with the lifting surfaces are STILL the same.

Even so, aerodynamics (and yes, the _same_ rules do apply to things in the water too) are reasonably well understood. His airfoil (hydrofoil?) will have a different Reynolds number, but the differences that this creates should be fairly well understood.

As for the earlier post where it says that the original poster knows

Make a simpler boat first, You (the original poster) might also want to try a plane or two as well, since you're dealing with a lot of aerodynamics here. (But know that you can't legally use the same transmitters and receivers for both plane and boat unless they're on the 27 or 50 mHz bands.)

It's a great hobby, and it sounds like you might have a great time with it, and it might have a great time with you. I'd hate to see you get frustrated with it because your first project is a bit overly ambitious. Get your feet wet with something simpler.

| When someone finally figures out how to either scale them down | things will get interesting.

Don't they just have to go into a quantum singularity and then come back out without retracting their exact path? At least that's what I recall seeing on Deep Space 9 -- though I'm suprised that they didn't have to reconfigure the deflector dish to emit a beam of positively charged chronoton particles into a static warp bubble too ...

Reply to
Doug McLaren

"Doug McLaren" SNIP What he said... or simple yep that sounds right to me. I use my thumb to measure entirely too much.

Oh sure do it the HARD way! As for me I merely take an improbability computer give a nice warm cuppa' and wait for the results. 8^)

Reply to
Keith Schiffner

Excellent insight! Thank you,

Eric

Reply to
abracadabra

Are there any brands that hobbyist/amateurs (aficionados of sport) find - fragile - temperamental - frustrating in other words, brands to avoid ?

Could you qualify your comments for each of the following categories ? [1] RC control brands [2] RC servos [3] electric motors [4] battery/charger systems

Thank you,

Eric

Reply to
abracadabra

I'm a hobbyist at heart whose allowed life to interfere with his mania.

When I was a kid, model building mania took hold of my mental capacities ages 8-16.

- my Meccano (metal) sets kept me busy for about 4 years - built 2 balsa-wood and tissue airplanes, both rubber-band driven. - built lots of plastic models, mostly airplanes, some tanks and cars - me and my GI Joe had a lot of fun for about 2 years ( sewed his clothes etc. myself) - I was a Cub Scout for 2 years when the local troop disbanded. - I was a Navy League Cadet for 2 years when the local organization collapsed (closest I got to the real-ship camp that was cancelled).

Since then it's been focus on school and work, with a little of other things.

Eric

Reply to
abracadabra

Sounds like you're using the deflector dish to deflect our attention towards your other passion, Trekker Brotherhood !

Eric

Reply to
abracadabra

| > As for the earlier post where it says that the original poster knows | > It's a great hobby, and it sounds like you might have a great time | > with it, and it might have a great time with you. I'd hate to see you | > get frustrated with it because your first project is a bit overly | > ambitious. Get your feet wet with something simpler. | | Are there any brands that hobbyist/amateurs (aficionados of sport) | find | - fragile | - temperamental | - frustrating | in other words, brands to avoid ?

As for radio equipment goes, all of the big manufacturers make good stuff -- Futaba, JR, Hitec, Airtronics. Hitec is a tad cheaper, but the quality is similar all around.

As for motors, I don't really do boats -- I do planes -- so what you'd use may be different than my experience.

But with planes, motors, even the good ones, don't cost too much compared to the rest of your eqipment. It's the speed controls and batteries that really suck up your money. Brushed motors wear out (on the better ones, you can replace the brushes), brushless motors seem to last forever, are more efficient and cost more.

For chargers, I don't know what your needs are, but I'm very fond of my GP Triton charger. It's not the best, but it does everything, and the performance/price ratio is possibly the highest out there. It'll probably do whatever you need it to do, but if you have really large batteries or lots of them, it might not do it as fast as you'd prefer.

| Could you qualify your comments for each of the following categories ? | [1] RC control brands | [2] RC servos | [3] electric motors | [4] battery/charger systems

Reply to
Doug McLaren

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