Suggestions for Semi-symmetrical trainer

On 1/5/2004 5:58 PM Ted shuffled out of his cave and grunted these great (and sometimes not so great) words of knowledge:

Hobbico Avistar. It is an ARF, flys VERY well and costs about $99.

My youngest son went from a PT40 to a Great Planes Easy Sport 40 to mowing the lawn with a Gremlin in his first month at the sticks (young eyes, fast reflexes, video-game educated thumbs and a winter with John Kallend's simulator. Thanks, John ;-).

For the rest of us, the Easy Sport 40 with a strong .46 would be a good second plane for a lot longer than that...

Two I've had a litle experience with: Hobbistar 60 ARF (R.I.P. battery connection not secure) Global Right Flyer 60H ARF (re-covered, going strong)

Thunder Tiger 61 Pro Futaba 6XAS

Both fly great.

I think the LT-40 is flat bottom wing

Carrell

So far There is Hanger 9's Arrow. And the Sig Kadet Lt-40.

I know that I am opening myself up to all sorts of opinions as this tends to be a very subjective subject.

Thanks...

Both the ARF and the kit Sig Kadet LT-40 have a flat bottom airfoil. I have the kit version. If you go this route, see the previous posts on modding the landing gear as it is very springy and narrow for the size plane. The Hangar 9 Alpha trainer is a good choice. One of our club members has one and it seems to fly very well.

As mentioned earlier, the Goldberg Falcon Mk III is semi symmetrical and is a good flyer but (at least my MkII) won't do snaps or spins. Does everything else though. I flew the wings off of it. It is now ready for yet another rebuild ( my last relocation didn't do it any good ) and I hope to fly it again. I've had it for nearly 20 years or so and it is one of my favorites.

I think that a properly built and trimmed Ugly Stick is the ideal first plane. It is fairly stable as well as aerobatic as you could want in a first or second plane. Low wing loading means you can slow it down for training. Remember, the throttle isn't an on-off switch!

I have to agree with you on this one, Paul. There is really no reason to start with a semi-symmetrical airfoil at all. But, if one was determined to do so, the Avistar or Falcon 56 models are good choices.

I have seen lots of "instructors" that do think that the throttle control is an on-off switch. I've even seen a few that can only land from a left hand approach.

Ed Cregger

|I have to agree with you on this one, Paul. There is really no reason to |start with a semi-symmetrical airfoil at all. But, if one was determined to |do so, the Avistar or Falcon 56 models are good choices. | |I have seen lots of "instructors" that do think that the throttle control is |an on-off switch. I've even seen a few that can only land from a left hand |approach. | |Ed Cregger

It looks like the Falcon is a kit, am I correct? Avistar is interesting.

Speaking of the Avistar, what is the story on the discontinuation of the Avistar 40 Mk II AWARF .35-.46 59.5" ? Now the closest subsbtitution would be a Avistar 40 II MonoKote ARF .40,59" as I see it. Are there any greater differences between them besides the half inch and can the 59" span version still run well with a .46 engine like the OS.46FX (.46AX ABL) or TT.46pro?

|I am looking for a trainer (I know, common newbee question) that has a |Semi-symmetrical wing (gives me a bit of versatility as I progress). |What planes are available. I do not a package as I want to pick a |good 6 channel radio. | |So far There is Hanger 9's Arrow. And the Sig Kadet Lt-40. | |I know that I am opening myself up to all sorts of opinions as this |tends to be a very subjective subject. | |Thanks...

The Avistar is interesting.

However, the Kadet Lt-40, though not semi-symmetrical, seems to be a favorite beginners plane. And the Kadet Senior. Another one is the US Aircore trainer (cheap).

I just want a good beginners plane that I can continue using.

An excellent choice as is one of the so-called "Stik" planes.

Contrary to what Black Cloud said, my kit-built (in 1995) LT-40 has a raised phillips entry leading edge and it will perform outside loops, but it doesn't stunt nearly as well as an Avistar or Stik. However it is IMO the best of the trainers currently on the market.

I think even intermediate and advanced flyers should keep a trainer handy, since they're very relaxing to fly and come in handy at such times when we don't feel "sharp."

Texas Pete AMA 59376 (Maybe, still haven't renewed)

My LT-40 may or may not have a "raised phillips entry" (what ever that is, please enlighten me) on the leading edge of the wing but it is still a flat bottomed wing. Mine too will outside loop fine but no spin/snap type manuvers. When trying to enter a spin it just kind of spirals down without stalling the outboard wing. Snaps are more like a very large barrel roll and the plane fights you every step of the way. Even normal rolls aren't pretty. It doesn't fly inverted very well as it wants to right itself (as any good, stable trainer would), so advanced aerobatics are out for it. (at least from my unmodded kit).Aside from the squirelly landing gear, about the only complaint I have is that it really doesn't handle windy (15-25 mph, a constant it seems here in South Texas) conditions well. Of course, most of the large .40 sized trainers don't either so it's a matter of choice again. Personally I prefer the Kadet Senior in its original 3 channel design. I've taught several people to fly with one and I've done things with that plane that I wouldn't even attempt with something else.

My Falcon MkII also won't do the spin/snap manuvers though I really don't know why. Someone said it has something to do with the lifting tail design of the plane. Possibly the Mk III will. It is also a kit but it builds fast and easy.

I would tend to agree with Ed Creggar tho that one of the Stik models, under proper instruction, would make a fine trainer. I have a Hangar 9 Ultra Stik

Place a wing panel on a flat surface. The L.E. is not down on that surface but slightly above it, and the ribs curve up to meet it. Seems like "raised phillips entry" was mentioned on the plans or in the construction manual. It's been a while. You'd have to ask the aerodynamics "experts" what it really means. To me it means the LT40 will outside loop where genuine flat-bottom trainers get about

Yup, although inverted flight is no big deal to achieve, just takes a little attention is all. Mine's balanced well behind the recommended rearmost balance point.

I'm in South Texas also, down below Corpus Christi. We fly in the wind or we don't fly, eh. Flying the LT40 hasn't been much of a problem as long as the wind is down the runway. When it comes over the South Texas jungle that lines both sides of our runway, it creates rotors that can wreak havoc with just about any airplane except a Quickee 500 or flying bricks. I really dig flying mine backwards in a stiff breeze. I put a second aileron servo so I can mix in flaperons and land vertically, no forward motion, it just comes down. Yee hah!

Texas Pete AMA 59376

Done a lot of training and my vote is on the Avistar.

Phil AMA609

. Yee hah!

You are the MAN !

's'what it's all about.

Fun!

Regards

Speaking of the Avistar, what is the story on the discontinuation of the Avistar 40 Mk II AWARF .35-.46 59.5" ? Now the closest subsbtitution would be a Avistar 40 II MonoKote ARF .40,59" as I see it. Are there any greater differences between them besides the half inch and can the 59" span version still run well with a .46 engine like the OS.46FX (.46AX ABL) or TT.46pro?

================================= Just a slightly updated version. Any version of the Avistar is fine with a

I'll do that on my rebuild. Thanks.

And thanls to you too Pete for your explaination of the phillips raised entry leading edge. Mine is as described.

Why do people think that a flat-bottom wing is great for a trainer ??? I find them to be very speed/pitch sensitive. They are at their worst during landings - catch a gust of wind or add a little throttle and UP it goes. Wind drops off or cut power, and DOWN comes the nose!

David

SNIP

Don't know if anyone has addressed this (and I'm too lazy to read all the replys, but the Kadet LT-40 (by Sig) is an excellent trainer but does NOT have a semi-symmetrical wing. it has a flat bottom airfoil. never the less, I found it to be a WONDERFUL trainer and I've even taught it a few tricks! :-) Mark