satanite as forge lining

So I built my forge with a wool liner and coffee can, using the jht7 for a burner. I fired my forge to cure the first coat of satanite, it turned
black where the flame touched the wall (on the satanite). Is that ok? Is it normal?
matthew ohio
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Not familiar with Satanite, but with Kaowool surfaces that touch flames have to be coated with Kaowool hardener or some other sealing agent.
Untreated the stuff will burn away... assuming that satanite is like Kaowool.
Regards Charles
MatthewK wrote:

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Huh. I use Durablanket S and haven't had problems with it burning away untreated. What temp rating of Kaowool do you use?
Steve
Chilla wrote:

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Heavy duty Kaowool, mind you I was hitting it with an oxy acetylene torch ;-) Charles
Steve Smith wrote:

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All is now clear...
Steve
Chilla wrote:

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I think Satanite is a coating like ITC-100, but cheaper, right? If so, the black is probably carbon from your burner. If that is true, it should burn off once you get the thing completely up to heat. I didn't know you needed to "cure" the coating--- with ITC-100 I just let it dry for a few days. If the material hasn't dissapeared, just try it out. You may need to add more air. I don't know what a jht7 burner is. If it is naturally aspirated, I don't know how it has to be adjusted. But, if this burner is a known good type, maybe you are choking the output by closing up the ends of your forge.
Too bad you didn't get more input from others on this.
Pete Stanaitis ---------------------------------
MatthewK wrote:

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Hi Pete,
The JTH-7 is a hose torch from Bernzomatic, and uses propane or mapp gas. The only adjustment is turning on or off the gas. A pretty good torch though, I bought one to prove a point, and when put in a micro furnace or a 1 brick forge does exceedingly well.
It's curious, there shouldn't be much carbon coming out of the burner, well not enough to blacken anything. My bet is it's the material burning.
The only time my kaowool went black was when it was uncoated and it was getting burned away.
Regards Charles
spaco wrote:

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On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 08:40:31 +1100, Chilla wrote:
Yeah, satanite is a refractory coating like the itc-100. I think it's cheaper, I believe the itc-100 has better reflective properties. I contacted Darren Ellis and he said it was normal and to make the coating a little thicker there too. I just recieved his reply today.
Thanks for the help, matthew ohio
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On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 23:19:31 +0000, MatthewK wrote:
from http://refractory.elliscustomknifeworks.com/
Satanite questions
How do I mix and apply the Satanite?
Mix the Satanite to a thick paste...just keep adding water slowly until you get a pasty consistency that you can paint on with a paintbrush....roughly the consistency of sour cream. Spray the ceramic fiber insulation down using water with a hand sprayer to wet it lightly. Next, apply the Satanite to the wool using a paintbrush, covering all exposed wool surfaces. To cure it, you want to dry it slowly. First, let the forge sit for a few hours minimum to air dry a little, then fire up the forge just briefly and shut it down. Do this several times, allowing it to cool down in between and increasing the on-time with each subsequent cycle. You'll see water vapor evaporating the first few times you do this. Finally, fire it up and bring it up to full temp to fully cure it. You will probably want to apply at least two coats of Satanite in this manner...it's a little time consuming (do it over a couple of day period) but makes for a more robust coating. a 1/4" layer is a good thickness to shoot for. If you are going to apply ITC-100 over top of the Satanite, be sure to fully cure the Satanite first.
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Experience will show you that you can pretty much slap it on and fire it up. You might get a more stable surface you do it the "right" way, you might not, but I've patched flaky spots on the work opening on my forge while I was working and it worked fine. Only takes a few seconds of that kind of heat to cure it and unlike ceramic, it does not tend to explode.
GA

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Can't imagine (X)wool turning black unless you were blowing carbon particals on it or it was already contaminated with some foriegn material. From what I've seen, exceeding the heat specs will just make it crumbly but remains white. Satinite is cheap and good for stabilizing the wool. You don't want the wool floating around in your breathing space. I don't think it matters what color it turns, I'll bet it holds a rigid dry surface at whatever temperture, which is about all you are asking it to do. Ron Reil highly recommends ITC for it's reflective properties but I've been pretty darn happy with wool and satinite so spending the extra cach wasn't reasonable. If you are serious about forging and heat treating, you will need a torch that allows you to vary the gas/oxygen mix. You need an oxygen lean atmosphere for welding and scale avoidance, Oxygen rich for high fast heat. Whatever works for you is the rule though.
GA

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I thought the same also, however put an oxy on it and it disintegrated, maybe the acetylene makes it black. When you use the hardener it stands up to the torture, doesn't go black and secures the fibres also. It's what I've found anyway.
Different camps, I guess, when it comes to additional oxygen. I can see the benefit of using blown air. I use a venturi setup myself, people have told me (and I've read this too) that "you can't forge weld without forced air". Obviously that's bullsh*t, if I can forge weld in a venturi gas forge anyone can.
I do get a lot of scale though... the nature of pattern welding, and have attempted to reduce this by putting fridge magnets over the air intake... this seems to work okay, but I rarely use it.
I think I wont be able to make wootz ingots without forced air, but I can melt pretty much everything else with a venturi furnace setup (in 5-10 minutes also :-) ).
I agree whatever you can use to do the job you want to do is the best rule :-)
Regards Charles
Kyle J. wrote:

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Everything I've seen of forced air torches has convinced me they are the worst of the genre. I can imagine one properly tuned to allow you to mix as needed but the ones I've seen - both homemade and commercial - really suck for efficiency. Too much volume of gas and air both are required to do the same job my T-Rex will do. Put a couple of good venturi burners in tandem and you could melt down anything. I suppose it probably comes down to the quality of the unit - be it forced air or venturi. Likely I have just not seen a good forced air unit - just like some folks have probably not seen a good venturi unit.
GA

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On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 09:45:39 -0800, Kyle J. wrote:

Yeah, if I get started thinking about what I should do....:) If I keep forging, or rather get more serious. I'll probably get a t-rex burner or soemthing. I think gas is ideal for forging.
My forge lets me get the steel out of direct flame for heat treating. It's just a coffee can.....:) I'll post some pictures Alvin is hosting for me later. I've been playing with some samples, I can get the samples to look like a broken tap. :)
I think the best heat source (for me) for heat-treating low alloy stuff I'm working with would be charcoal. Might have to build something that's a cross between forge and kiln. :) Even heat with a reducing atmosphere. Don't suppose I could do any better for the cost. :)
matthew ohio
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The T-Rex really is a superb burner. I keep thinking I'm gonna buy another while the guy is still around but keep putting it off. I'm gonna kick myself if the guy decides to quit making them.

You know, I always worked on a gut reaction that having the work directly in the flame was a bad thing. In reality aside from the fact that all the heat is concentrated in a small area, this seems to be a good low usable oxygen source of your heat. Scaling should all be taking place away from the flame. I watched a video of a guy making a Mokume done by welding quarters and he was holding the work right in the flame. I gave it a try myself and it worked great.
GA
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On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 18:06:46 -0800, Kyle J. wrote:

I need to play more, although somewhere along the lines I woke up not liking the cold and snow......what the crap?!
matthew shopless in ohio
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