Which Stainless should I use?

I'm looking to make a set of training knives for Kung Fu, due to
regulations (go Canadian Government) I can not purchase them (even
though they are dull and blunt). Anyways I'm looking for something low
maintenance and nice looking (won't rust, stays shiney), easy to forge
would be nice, low cost would be good, it doesn't need to be heat
treatable, and it doesn't have to hold an edge. I would like to match
the balance and weight of a fighting knife (or at least the one Sifu has
that I will be copying) so I don't want to use aluminium. Any suggestions?
Ken
Reply to
Ken Vale
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Yes, I have a suggestion. Buy them anyway, then make them look homemade.
Grant
Ken Vale wrote:
Reply to
Grant Erwin
The whole point is that I CAN'T buy them, no matter how much I would like to (it would probablely be cheaper too). Ken
Reply to
Ken Vale
Am i missed something here...?
You're saying that in Canada we cannot buy a knife that is dull and blunt..? I have several knives, all sharp and pointy, surely more dangerous than the dull variety in combat, and I assure you _most_ of them are legal ;)
If you wanted a Dull knife, couldn't you simply buy a sharp one at any store and just dull it off..? I'm not quite sure where you got the impression that Dull knives are illegal...?
neL
Reply to
Corwin
The story that I have been told is that about 3-4 years ago those wise people in charge of things (either customs or someother government agency) have told all suppliers of Martial Arts equipment (at least in Ontario) that they are not allowed to sell solid metal practice knives, they can sell wood or those bendy/springy metal swords or ruber/plastic knives or full sized replica katana but not metal knives (wood and rubber/plastic just don't move/feel the same). I know it is stupid. It might be that the knives (I've seen them called Ring Daggers because of the ring on the pommel) in question are double-edged and 6ish inches long (though as far as I know real ones like that are legal...). I figure that it is just paranoia by some government person insuring that the mass public is protected from some wacked out psycho martial artist using sharpened practice weapons to gut innocent movie goers or something (ignoring the fact that the practice weapons are made from crap steel, which won't hold an edge, isn't very tough). Somethings the government does I don't mind, or things are very annoying... Ken
Reply to
Ken Vale
Ken, We have a ring dagger similar to the one u describe at the Dojo that we use in practice. I don't see anything about the knife that would classify it as illegal... But if like you say the real ones are legal then you could get a real one and dull it. Or you could try getting one from somewhere else in Canada or order one from the US.
neL
Reply to
Corwin
Buy them. They're red or orange foam plastic and dirt cheap.
if you must make them, use wood. Ash, beech or oak are good. You can make good kid's toys this way, but you shouldn't use them for training - a stabbing motion with a wooden blade can kill.
There are no metal "training" knives in any dojo I'm involved with. Far too dangerous.
-- Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods
Reply to
Andy Dingley
I may very well have to order one from the US, but as someone on rec.knives pointed out when they got a knife shipped to them and had it confiscated at the border Canada Customs can be very picky about what they let through. Truth be told I'd rather just make it, I've wanted to do bladesmithing for a while so I have been taking a blacksmithing course, reading books, surfing the web and what not. Ken
Reply to
Ken Vale
We use the metal trainers for doing Knife Katas.
neL
Reply to
Corwin
yes.. that was me. But that was cuz based on the written laws, the knife was considered prohibited... a "ring dagger" wouldn't be. but its your call...
any excuse to start forging or grinding your own blades is a good excuse :)
neL
Reply to
Corwin
These would be for Forms not self-defense, using metal knives for self-defense would be like using real weapons in a theatre production, just asking for it. As it happens I have not seen the particuliar style of knife in question sold in foam plastic in any of the catalogs that the school has nor are they available from any online store that I have checked (I spent about an hour using google to help me look). Aside from the "being true to my style" sentiment some of the specialized moves of said form require that style of knife. Ken
Reply to
Ken Vale
I dunno about Canada, but here in the States, 1/8" x 1" 304 or 316 flat bar is readily available, fairly cheap, and would probably fit the bill for your project. 300 series stainless is not heat treatable and will turn dark when you forge it. If you figure it's worth the effort, it'll polish nice and shiny.
Cheaper yet, you can probably score a couple of used farrier's rasps from any farrier for free. Farriers are always looking for something to do with 'em and most of us have a stack a show dog couldn't jump over. Old rasps (files) are a traditional source of heat treatable steel for knife makers in the New World, so maybe you could tell the gendarmes you're carrying on a tradition, not breaking any laws, if you get busted for knifemaking out of season.
Reply to
Tom Stovall
We use dull metal knives for training all the time. They have a much better feel than the wooden ones. They are an old bowie pattern.
Fraser
Reply to
Fraser Johnston
Charly
Reply to
Charly the Bastard
I just object to this notion of "dull metal"
I don't think you _can_ "dull" metal to any useful level of safety. If it's metal, then it's thin, and a thin hard edge is going to cut.
Train with metal knives by all means (at a high enouh level), but I think any thought of them as "training" items brings in an unsafe attitude.
Mind you, I was at a party with LARPers last night (sort-of SCA if you're in the US). They wear more armour than a park of Challengers, and nothing harder allowed than a foam-rubber boffer.
-- Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods
Reply to
Andy Dingley
You can get cut with them but it is really hard. We have more injuries with wooden practice knives because people tend to take them less seriously. We also used rolled up and tape newspaper "knives" for full on training. We always grade with steel knives however.
We have far more accidents in none weapons work. We have had a few nasty mishaps with swords however.
Live action role players tend to be nerdy bookish types who are happy to talk the talk but usually dont walk the walk.
Fraser
Reply to
Fraser Johnston
"Andy Dingley" wrote
I have sets of the training knives made by Steve Rollert
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The are made from a heavy, dense aluminum, I think. They have ground bevels and look very good, but there is just nothing to abrade you. The stock is 5/16ths or something- even with the distinct bevels, the 'edge' is a fat 3/16ths or so (haven't got one in my hand or anything). All of the edges are rounded, and then it's sandblasted or something- kind of a strong matte finish. I've probably got a couple of dozen training knives, and Steve's are the ones I use for speed demos by students, because they're very forgiving to small mistakes. I use them for my own hand all the time. Off topic to the material; Steve's daughter, Jamie, does the tsuka-ita type cord wrap for the training knives. I've been using them now for years, and her wrap has not loosened or anything- it is as tight and slick as the day she did it. And aside; Steve makes the finest fighting knives I've ever held in my hand made by anyone at any time. He's an instructing smith and does the state of the art for pattern-weld, close machining, stacked heat-treatment, cryogenic stuffola, sophisticated steels- and combining them; all that stuff. Couple that with being an outdoorsman, outfitter, paramedic, firefighter and long time martial arts instructor in blading arts- he makes a hell of a fighting knife. There are several in my photo gallery- I like them for display projects as well as personal carry/demo, so I've been lucky enough to have a number of them. Sorry about photoing some of them only in the sheath- the bad photos were mostly taken just for my studio record, the good ones by accident
Reply to
Chas
"Ken Vale" wrote
Don't worry about your weight requirement (not using aluminum because of the weight difference)- all martial systems have used surrogates for demo/two man drills that were a different weight than the real deal. In solo practice, just use your 'real' weapon; same for 'cutting' practice. Besides, I think someone was just pulling your chain about the customs/legal aspects. Even Canadians can't outlaw the reflection of a shadow of a picture of a weapon- that's silly.
Chas
Reply to
Chas
!! 8-) Ooh..... Handbags at dawn 8-)
Lets just say that some of them have much in common with the IT people who always wear climbing boots, just in case a mountain should suddenly spring up in the server room.
-- Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods
Reply to
Andy Dingley
Well I have looked through many Martial Arts Equipment supply books for Canadian companies, it is simplely amazing the amount of stuff that says "Not Legal For Sale In Canada." Now I can't say why certain items are illegal when they are less harmful than others items that are legal, nor can I tell you why they have banned dull, blunt metal practice knives, but they have. They are no longer listed in the Canadian equipment books (though you can find them in the US books). Governments do silly things Chas, sometimes the things they do are sillier than this. Ken
Reply to
Ken Vale

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